Ooops! Caught in a Handicapped Bathroom Stall!

Where I used to work, whoever designed the bathroom designed it so the handicapped accessible stall was literally the only usable stall.

It looked something like this (Handicapped stall, obviously on the right.)


|0 | 0 |
| | |
\
\

I always felt kind of bad about using it, but I’m a bigger guy. The actual toilet was so close to the wall, that I literally could not fit without sitting kittycorner on the toilet. Which doesn’t really work that well on those oblong type public toilets. Plus, they installed the little paper thingy, on the wall that you were too close to!

I talked to others who weren’t so large, and they all said they never use that stall… It is just unusable.

Argh! it messed up my beautiful bathroom diagram. Well, I think you still get the point… heh

Screeme,

Health codes vary from state to state (and city to city), but there is a minimum distance from the center of the toilet to the wall. IIRC it is 19", but am not too sure.

As to why all the toilets aren’t ‘roomy’, it goes something like this:

You must, by code have X amount of bathroom stalls. This is usually determined by area and type of building.

of the X stalls, Z number of stalls MUST be accessible.

My Texas Accesibility Code Book is very specific about requirements: You must have a 5’ turning radius, a specific clear space in front of sinks, etc

As architects, we must FIRST and foremost meet the demands of the accesiblity requirements.
Then everything else comes into play.

Often, the other stalls are shrunken to the bare requirement. Sometimes, because of wall types, etc (the list of reasons is very long, trust me), we can’t make the bathroom itself any bigger.

An example:

We once built a clinic. The doctor was very tall and wanted a particular counter higher up than normal. We had to tell him it couldn’t be done because of the accessibility requirements. He may, one day, hire a disabled employee and thus, that counter was not acceptable. So we had to build that counter at accessible heigth requirements, even though it was his own clinic and even if it would mean he had to stoop over to use it.

Sometimes, entire projects have been scraped because we couldn’t make them accessible.

If anyone has any questions about accessibility rights, in regards to architecture, let me know.

-Babs, intern architect.

[hijack]

Couldn’t a removable height extension be built on the counter so that the doctor might have a bit of comfort? Like, build the “legal” counter, then make a mini-counter on top of that held fast with hinges for fast removal in the case of a handicapped employee?

[/hijack]

As far as I know, yes he may. There are several adjustable counters out there that are movable with a foot pedal. The problem is, they tend to be expensive.

I am sorry to not have been clear:

He could most certainly have done what you suggested. What I was trying to say is that as far as code reviewers go, they are primarily concerned to meet ADA requirements. In this situation, I believe that he did NOT want to go to the extra expense. (huh? you’re a doctor!)

In short, what I was trying to say is that if you only have one of something (bathroom, a sink) it has to be accessible regardless if it is an employment position that would possibly never be filled by handicapped person.

There are, of course, hundreds of loop holes and stipulations. Sometimes designing bathrooms can be the most difficult and hair-pulling aspect of a job.

I have said here before (another thread), if you see that a facility is not to standards, you have the right that it be accesible. AFAIK, all codes can be found online. If a business is in violation, it will not be fined, but it must, by federal law, be corrected or face closing.

This topic comes up from time to time… “Dear Abby” letters notwithstanding, the h-stall is, indeed, intended for the convenience but not the exclusive use of disabled people. In other words, while there is a requirement that public buildings have wheelchair-accessible toilets it is not required that these toilets be off-limits to non-disabled people. I researched this topic years ago when my (now 15 year old) daughter became old enough to use a public toilet without me. She is disabled with CP. At the time I first researched the subjest, Doe was using a wheelchair – now she uses forearm crutches, but, because she can’t stand independently, she still needs the h-stall because of the bars. What I taught my daughter to do is to queue up normally if the line extends – as they often do – outside of the restroom and to remain in line through the little foyer that women’s rooms usually have. Once she has progressed into the actual room of stalls, she should consider herself next in line for the h-stall. The person coming out of the h-stall is often embarassed when they see her waiting and sometimes they apologize. I’ve taught Doe to smile and say, pleasantly, “Not at all, it’s a public restroom – you’re as entitled to use it as I am.”

Jess

Bad News Baboon, you reminded me of an ongoing issue at the bar I work at…it’s a two-level bar, and in the 2nd story bar, the bathrooms weren’t designated either as bathrooms, or as men’s and women’s. (One room, one-toilet bathrooms.) They were just two anonymous doors.

It was a nightmare working up there b/c women would get all pissed off that men used both bathrooms…drunk men who pissed all over the seats, of course…and people would also get upset that they didn’t know they were bathrooms. I asked repeatedly for signage, but I was told by the boss that, since he hadn’t had the time/money yet to make both bathrooms handicap-accessible, he was not allowed by code to designate them as public bathrooms. There’s no law, he said, against having as many private bathrooms as you like…but if you designate one for public use, it has to be handicap accessible. He said the signage would make it “public.” (We had multi-stall, handicap-accessible bathrooms downstairs.)

Is this true? Just curious. Eventually he fixed the problem…he installed two of those steel bars on the walls of the bathrooms, which apparently was all that was needed to meet code…and now they have signs, too…but I was just curious as to the code on this. Is it really illegal to put a “Women” sign on a bathroom if the bathroom isn’t handicap accessible? Does that sign make the bathroom public?

Oh, and in response to the OP, I use handicapped stalls only if they are the only ones available, or if the other ones (like at Wal-Mart) are absolutely disgusting. (I try to avoid using public bathrooms at all if I can help it, but sometimes I just gotta pee.)

I was told by my mother that is always best to avoid using the handicap stall unless there’s a line. And to yield your place in line, and your access to the handicapped stall, if there is anyone who needs it, regardless of their place in line.

At my prior workplace, there were two women’s stalls, one handicap accessible, and one not accessible. In the men’s rooms, there was one stall, handicap accessible, and one urinal, handicap accessible. While my boss preferred using the women’s room before they showed up, what was I supposed to do?

I don’t have qualms about using the handicap stalls if there’s not someone else waiting.

I once clogged a handicapped toilet at work (I have no special needs when it comes to public toilets, it’s just that it is always clean and we have no handicapped people in my building.) I phoned in the trouble ticket to the maintenence people and a ticket was sent. The maintenance man (Jack) said to me, “John, you’re not handicapped!” and I replied, “I was before I went in there!, did you see what I left you?”

Definitions are hazardous :wink:

And thanks, Bad News Baboon, for the reply.

If only they made toilets higher in general so tall people like me would fit…:sigh:

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the best part about the stalls. Using the bars for leverage. :smiley:

I will use the handicapped stall if there is noone waiting. I work in a restaurant and we have to use the public bathroom, because there isn’t an employee bathroom. It works out great then that way the employees can keep an eye on the bathroom to make sure you don’t run out of tp, and soap, etc. But something that noone has mentioned is in our bathroom the only one with a baby changing table is the handicapped stall. So, I would say that the handicapped stall is universal and not restricted to just handicapped people.

Audrey,

as always, YMMV, as laws are different in each state.

Also, Without knowing the size of your bar, I can not answer completely. There are, as you can imagine, many exceptions to the rules.

However, the UBC code book states that a restaurant (a Group A occupancy building):
“At least one lavatory for each two water closets for each sex shall be provided at an approved location.”

so, yes, he may technically have many private bathrooms, but a minimum number MUST be made available to the public.

It’s really too darn bad if he can’t afford it: it’s the law.

Also, the Texas accessibility guide states:

"At least 5% but not less than one of the fixed tables shall be accessible and shall comply…

where food or drink is served at counters exceeding 34" in height by customers seated at stools or standing at a counter, a portion of the main counter which is 60" in length MINIMUM…shall be available or service shall be provided to tables within the ssame area"

However, I am quite sure that many times the law is overlooked until someone complains about it.

Technically, (again laws vary), this is against the law depending on the height and how much the baby changer sticks out.

Many cities are forbidding this practice.

I heard if you get caught using the handicapped stall they tow your car.

Hmm. If that’s true (or approximately so), then the Wal-Mart bathroom I used a few weeks ago was way off. I didn’t much enjoy having my bare hip jammed against the cold stall wall as I peed. Mind you, I’m not thin, but I’m not Shamu either – it’s roughly 11" from my navel to the widest part of my hips when I’m seated.