Ohio is one of the (minority) states that does not have a “concealed carry” law, though supporters are currently trying to get one passed. The whole issue of concealed carry got me thinking, though: what about “open carry,” i.e. wearing a cowboy-style holster out in the open with a (presumably) loaded handgun? Are there separate laws to cover this on a state-by-state basis? Or must all states allow this due to Second Amendment protection?
Crafter_Man
Dayton, OH
PS: Please don’t debate the issue of gun control or concealed carry here. While I am pro-gun and a supporter of concealed carry, I would imagine the moderator would rather see arguments on this issue take place in the “Great Debates” message board.
…but AFAIK, you can carry your weapon in plain sight, with 2nd Amendment protection, if you meet certain criteria:
You are not a convicted felon
You have the requisite ID
You have it reasonably secure (ie, some kid can’t pull it out of your holster and inspect it while you write your check for your groceries)
You aren’t in a place where having firearms on your person will get you a one-way ticket to the county lock-up (or at least get you escorted off the premises), such as an airport or a government building.
In other words, most states don’t have “open carry” legislation because it isn’t necessary. If your gun is secure in its holster, it’s a legal weapon, and you have the requisite ID, if someone gives you any crap about it pull out your F.O.I.D. and your copy of the 2nd Amendment and shoo them away.
Having said all that, I’ve seen very few people walking around with their weapons in plain sight. My WAG is that people who own guns are content to leave them at home and only take them away from home when they’re going hunting, etc.
It is a state-by-state thing entirely. But even if you live in an “open carry” state, like Kansas, don’t think you’re out of the woods.
First off, many states support “home rule”, which means every county, city, village, water district, homes association, or whatever can supercede the open carry law, and effectively make it a “no carry” zone. In Kansas, unless you are a lawyer and carry around all of the statutes of every jurisdiction in the state, you never know when you might inadvertantly become a convicted felon.
Second, even in an open carry zone don’t think for a second the police are going to let you “get away with it”. They will hound you, harass you, threaten you, detain you for “questioning”, all because you dare to try and take responsibility for defending your own life. I know 2 sheriffs deputies and 1 city cop who have told me as much - to quote the Olathe Kansas cop “yeah, it may be legal, but think I’m going to let you do it on my turf” (emphasis added by me)
In Kansas, our Governor Graves said he vetoed the concealed carry law because Kansas already had an “open carry law”, and thus it wasn’t needed. A complete lie, which ignores the effects of home rule and illegal police harassment noted above.
And NO, I will not respond to debates on this issue from anyone right now. I’m only posting my opinions here.
In fact, a city nearby Fort Riley in Kansas once made it illegal to even carry a gun locked in the trunk of your car, and went so far as to arrest someone who was driving through to go hunting, who had a locked, unloaded shotgun in his trunk and a valid hunting license. It was eventually overturned, but at what cost to the guy?
NEVER assume that you can carry a gun openly in public nowadays, regardless of what the law says. You will not believe just how badly cops will harass you and bully you if you do so. And they’ll take that copy of the 2nd Amendment, wrap it around a nightstick, and beat the shit out of you with it.
There are many thousands of overlapping and sometimes conflicting guns laws in these united states. It’s a bad idea to try to simplify them.
Arizona is quite liberal in that open carry is allowed with the exception of specific locations such as (but not limitd to) places liquor is served, federal buildings, post office grounds, etc. etc. Concealed carry with a permit is allowed any place that open carry is also allowed. Any business or propery owner may prohibit concealed or open carry. It’s not uncommon to see a civilian carrying openly but the norm.
Texas has concealed carry with permit but open carry is never allowed and is in itself the crime of “brandishment.” Texas also has reciprocity with Arizona in that it honors an Arizona CCW (carry concealed weapon permit) as long as Texas law is followed.
Another spanner to throw in the works is Indian jurisdiction. As soon as you enter a US indian reservation you are subject to local tribal law. State and federal law and the constitution don’t matter there. In some locations in Phoenix one can cross the street and no longer be in the United States.
While it’s all well and good to proudly wave the Second Amendment around, and while I agree that it should have some effect on the situation you describe – it may not.
Please remember that the Second Amendment, as originally written, bound only the federal government, not the states. It took the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment (and some time), to ensure, for example, that state courts were also obligated to give effect to the Sixth Amendment, guaranteeing counsel to an accused.
But hey! - I hear you cry. Now that we have the Fourteenth Amendment, my gun rights are safe, yes?
Er… maybe.
There is no definitive Supreme Court ruling that applies the Second Amendment to the states by way of the Fourteenth Amendment. What rulings exist, in fact, tend to hint in the other direction.
So while you’re more than welcome to keep your copy of the Second Amendment to hand to an inquiring FBI agent, for instance, it might not do you much good with the local sheriff.
I must point out several false statements Bricker made with respect to the Second Amendment:
As to what was originally intended, we need only look to the quotations at the time, e.g.:
Also:
If the issue is still in doubt, I can supply more quotes.
Also, Bricker wrote:
Huh? That’s not my interpretation. (IANAL) Judging from your ‘what rulings exist’ clause, you’re probably aware that the SC rarely rules on second amendment cases.
(The court remanded the case to a lower court to resolve the question of whether the sawed-off shotgun in question had “some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia”.)
Now, this does act to limit second amendment protection to weapons useful to a well regulated militia, but it doesn’t cede any ground to states at all. Is there a 19th or 18th century Supreme Court ruling you are referring to?
Wussconsin, like Ohio, does not allow ccw for civilians.
There is no prohibition against carrying openly, however there is nothing that says it is legal either. Municipalities here cannot pass gun laws that are are more strict than the states because of a “Gun Preemption” law.
So while open carry is not specifically against the law, disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace are, which is probably what you’ll get charged with. You are better off concealing it (a misdemenor here) because, think about it, the only way the cops will know you have it is if 1) you are dumb enough to tell someone 2)you are dumb enough to walk through a metal detector with it or 3)you are stupid enough to have a run in with the law and get frisked. Of course, someone might also find out you were packing if you whipped it out and used it for self defense. That’s not stupid though.Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, right?
Good luck rastahomie. Come to Florida and try that. I will be laughing at you all the way to jail. Some of you are forgetting that open carry is indeed handled differently from state to state. FOID card eh? That is a Michigan thing isn’t it? There is no such card in this state. We do not need permits to buy guns or ammo.
In Florida the state “shall issue” a ‘concealed carry’ permit to persons over 21. No felonies and other things apply. $117 for a five year permit. Open carry is ilegal in this state. It is only a misdemeanor though. Concealed carry without a permit is a felony.
This number seems very high. I will look for another site to see if they confirm or deny this. Personally if I was asked, I would put the number at <5.
… I’ll be back
Grrrr. I guess I will reluctantly have to go with 26. Reluctantly… Your site lists Florida as a state with unlawful open carry. I know this is correct. But I am sure that it is not allowed in GA which the site lists as an open carry state. Are there any GA dopers out there to confirm this?
Wait a minute, i thought reservation land was still considered the jurisdiction of the us government? I know there are various treaties and whatnot, but say someone was murdered on tribal land and the leader of the reservation refused to “extradite” the murderer. Couldnt the US guvment step in?
Indian reservations are sovereign nations, each with its own government and laws. Why would a murder that took place on a reservation be subject to extradition? The suspect would be tried in tribal courts. If a murder suspect fled to an indian reservation the yanqui cops would not be allowd to follow. In that case a request for extradition by US autorities would have to be agreed to by the tribal government. Indian reservations aren’t just about casinos.
285.16 Civil and criminal jurisdiction; Indian reservation.–
(1) The State of Florida hereby assumes jurisdiction over criminal offenses committed by or against Indians or other persons within Indian reservations and over civil causes of actions between Indians or other persons or to which Indians or other persons are parties rising within Indian reservations.
(2) The civil and criminal laws of Florida shall obtain on all Indian reservations in this state and shall be enforced in the same manner as elsewhere throughout the state.
Also…
Tribal Officers do have Federal Arrest powers. Each officer, upon completing all of the State of Florida Law Enforcement Officer certification requirements, is Commissioned as a United States Dept of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Speical Deputy Officer. This commission allows the police officer to enforce all of the U.S. Title 18 crimes on the Indian Reservation. Along with this commission, the police officer is also commissioned by the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. All of these commissions allow the police officer to make Federal Arrests, within the jurisdiction of the Seminole and Miccosukee Tribe of Indians.
Slightly off topic, but still relating to the weapons laws in Ohio: A friend of mine and myself on one occasion asked the police departments of Cleveland and Cleveland Heights about the legality of carrying swords in the city limits, and were told that it was perfectly legal, so long as they weren’t concealed. I’m not sure if there are different laws for firearms specifically.
And yes, it does say something about me that I occasionally wear a sword in public.
I will say that there is definately a different law for firearms there.
Here, “weapons” and “firearms” are two completely different animals. Weapons (big knives, swords, clubs, arrows, dirks, etc) can be carried as long as they are visible. So Ninjas are OK! Firearms (anything that uses an explosive to expel a projectile) cannot be carried openly and may be carried concealed with a permit. Oh yeah, with the same permit, weapons may be concealed as well. Freaks with the swords under their trench coats love this. Personally I like to keep a large gun under my trench coat.
Some of you are forgetting that open carry is indeed handled differently from state to state. FOID card eh? That is a Michigan thing isn’t it? There is no such card in this state. We do not need permits to buy guns or ammo.