There is the other camp in Missouri that also had an outbreak. That was an overnight camp for 13-18 year olds. A day camp in Texas also closed, but that was fewer cases, but the kids were “ages two to incoming seventh graders,” so younger. There are other reports of camps closing in Arkansas and Alabama, though it isn’t clear if they had disease spread at the camps, or just exposure.
Without knowing the denominator it’s impossible to say if the big outbreaks in Georgia and Missouri are the worst of what are rare occurrences (I hope so), or something that is too common to be acceptable—if there are only 100 overnight camps, then a big outbreak at 2 is very scary. If there are 1000, then not nearly as scary.
Of the camps that are closed, about 68% are resident-based, overnight camps, while only 17% of day camps are shuttered for the season. About 14% of programs that operate as both resident and day camps have remained closed as well.
That squares with what the American Camp Association is seeing, too. Tom Rosenberg, president of ACA, tells CNBC Make It that only about 20% to 30% of ACA overnight camps are operating this summer. The organization says a preliminary estimate of the direct revenue lost this summer because of the coronavirus pandemic is about $16 billion. Approximately 19.5 million children will not have camp experiences this summer and the closures translate into about 900,000 lost jobs.
“I don’t think people recognize how big the impact has been on the field of camps this year,” Rosenberg says. “Your day-care centers will get to operate in September. Many, many, many camps will not.”
Apropos of little, I don’t think any summer camps were permitted to open in Ontario. I’m not sure if I agree - I think under-10s are lower risk. But camps are probably much less important than schools, so I balance it is probably the right thing to do.
You know what’s an awful effect of the politizistion of COVID? Schools are wary of taking the lead in educating our students about COVID. It is like talking about evolution or the cause of the Civil War. It’s not that we can’t talk about it, but we have to bend over backward to avoid seeming disrespect to some pretty crazy opinions.
So while we will be able to enforce the social distancing regimes in our schools, we will be really limited in our ability to encourage best practices outside the building. Typically, schools have played a big role in teaching kids, especially littles, about health. My son has had lessons on handwashing and teeth brushing and covering your mouth when you cough. But now those things are almost political. They will have to be treated gingerly. Even in a state with a mask order, I bet teachers won’t be able to tell students to wear a mask in public, lest an angry parent complain.
Couldn’t be. My evidence to the contrary was to the contrary of Dr_Paprika’s post. He just made his post. We could not have covered it before.
As to going over your comments that transmission from children is low, implying that opening schools is safer, I do comment on it because the issue is not as clear cut as you’re making it out to be. For someone reading the thread for the first time, it might not be clear to them that there are studies on both sides, and it’s more complicated than your words imply.
You’ve posted one side of that particular issue so many times, I’ve lost count. At one point in the thread, I considered counting how many times you’ve posted that just to see how many times it was. At this point, it’s a daunting task.
Maybe not as informative as some other instances, but I was reporting on the CDC report. They picked that case because it was a big outbreak.
If I were going to pick a case for comparison to schools, I might pick this case of a camp that did more planning and sanitizing than a school could afford to do and still ended up with infection.
Many of the camps that did stay open, closed shortly after due to outbreaks.
Even the camps that stayed open had to admit that it was luck if no one got infected.
More reports of infection in the school systems
After only 2 days, another school in Indiana has reported infection. This school in Indiana did temporarily shut down and not just quarantined affected people. I don’t know the proximity of this school to the other school in Indiana in my last post.
Amid parent protests, teachers and staff infected with Covid and increased requirements for teachers due to social distancing, thousands of educators are getting laid off due to budget cuts and lack of federal money.
This paper hasn’t been reviewed yet but its conclusion is that closing schools in the spring was the most effective in stopping spread than any other approach including total lockdowns (partly because many lockdowns were implemented too late). Other things like availability of PPE/hospital resources, risk communication to the public (including strong communication on public mask wearing) and cancelling smaller gatherings (interesting…) scored high. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.06.20147199v1.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR34D0wrnnTj0tvoiUJJrSSpZ4b5I0Cggr_OZRIya2pG_m4H_yckEBp3WmM
I think it is unrealistic to expect college students to avoid alcohol and parties, but Fauci is a smart guy.
In graduate school I studied medicine. It was partly my job to arrange some get-togethers and social events. Quite a few of the students were religious or did not drink, so I tried to arrange some dry events along with the obvious boozers. These did not go over well at all; the social people wanted their liquor. And these were mainly fifth year students. In first year, much more alcohol and far less judgement is involved.
I don’t really buy the “worse for kids to not go to school” rhetoric… yes typical school is great for social development. Are my young kids going to get social benefits when they’re wearing masks, being forced to be 6 feet apart, and never leaving a single room? Hell, the kindergarten classes aren’t even going to have toys. No recess. Lunch is at your desk.
Our district’s plan for the winter is to keep the windows open and kids in coats because the buildings don’t have ventilation systems. Same goes for the school busses. In the past they’ve been so underfunded that they don’t even have soap and paper towels in the bathrooms.
The district surveyed 2,000 teachers and 3/4 said they “might not return” in the fall (many are 50+).
I think it’s possible for some schools to open, but I seriously doubt the average public school in the US is equipped for this. Ours aren’t anyway.
Exactly. When people say schools should be open, they imagine school as it normally is. Not school where students have to sit at their desks all day hardly ever being allowed to move.
So some schools have started and pictures are coming out of crowded hallways filled with maskless students and entire senior classes huddled together for class photos where no one is wearing a mask. I’m not sure if it’s indicative of all schools, but it’s clear that schools like these are not going to be a safe environment for the students. In that kind of environment, could parents legally refuse to obey the district’s requirement for in-class education? Shouldn’t there be some requirements that the districts have to provide a safe environment? If the school was filled with radon gas or something, they wouldn’t force the kids to go and get cancer. Is the situation with coronavirus any different?
And my kid’s school district has decided to go to home learning only when opening at the end of August. They give three core reasons:
A sustained upward trend in the number of COVID-19 cases in the community. Colorado is not Florida or Texas, but our case count is going the wrong direction, and a trickle becomes a flood with exponential growth.
About 25% of students have opted out of in-school learning, which is considered manageable for a hybrid in-school/at-home model. However, “many parents” indicate they want flexibility to respond to local conditions quickly when deciding to send kids to school. Other parents want to see how the first few weeks go before deciding to send their kids.
Nearly 300 teachers have received exemptions from on-site work. This does not leave enough teachers to handle a hybrid model.
So apparently in Indiana, the governor doesn’t think masks prevent spread unless people are standing close together. I don’t know why else he would do this:
Standing 3-6 feet from a bare-faced infected person who is coughing, talking, or laughing isn’t going to protect you. Mutual masks might not keep you from getting infected, but they can reduce your viral load. This is madness.
Here in Alberta, the government just announced that masks will be mandatory for grade 4—12 come September. This is probably a good start, but smaller classes would be even better. It’s going to be a fun thing to get used to as a teacher.
In our county (NC), parents were given the choice to enroll their kids in a hybrid model (three cohorts of kids cycling between a one week in/two weeks out schedule) or all virtual learning. 51% of the kids have enrolled in all virtual. The county has now said that even the kids who signed up for the hybrid model will be doing remote learning for at least the first quarter of school, because they don’t believe it’s safe for them to go back to school and they don’t have the resources to make it safe at this point.
I signed my kids up for all virtual, even my HS senior. I let both of them (both in HS) have a say in what they wanted to do and neither of them felt it was safe to go back. I’m relieved.
You know, I am actually pretty impressed/pleased by how our local/state (CA) system is handling things, especially compared to my sister’s experience in MO.
-Governor/state has closed schools in counties on their “watch list,” which has quantifiable metrics in terms of number of cases, etc. This includes my county.
-But there is a waiver process you can use to open schools, if you think your school should be open anyway.
-Our local school district is prepared to open under a part-time/hybrid model that includes hiring more teachers to make smaller class sizes (which is pretty amazing, I salute them) and possibly a lot of outside classes (because we’re in CA, we can do this)
-The strictures for the waiver process have come out and they also seem pretty reasonable. Schools in our county do not qualify for waivers, as far as I understand, because our case load is too high, so it’s gonna be all remote right now here anyway.
Meanwhile, the way my sister tells it, there seems to be no guidance at all from her state and every school district is just kind of figuring things out on their own. Her school district is opening while all the ones around them are not, and their case rate is twice as high as in my county, I think, so… good luck with that.
This is really bringing home to me the importance of a combination of top-down guidance based on metrics that may differ from place to place (that is, one county may have very different numbers than another, but you can make policy based on the local numbers rather than on the state as a whole) and strong local guidance. Sure wish we had that on a national level…
