Question triggered by recent posts: we in America talk a lot about the obstacles to remote education, including socio-economic issues and just plain attention span on the part of kids. Is it significantly different/better internationally?
No, the same concerns exist. Although the problem might be bigger in the US, because of the smaller social safety net.
The initial reports from the primary schools here in the Netherlands, seem to be positive…in the sense that the large majority worked from home and has not been “falling back”
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Nope. Japanese parents are complaining about all the problems with remote education. Some of my friends were going crazy because I’d the difficulties getting kids to pay attention and do homework.
Our school had training on remote education, just in case it would be required, and the administration didn’t even attempt to attempt live sessions for elementary students. If we need to go that route, we’ll record the seasons and let students play it back.
Updating.
Some review of the evidence supporting the very low risks associated with opening child care and elementary schools at least.
Additional in this NPR bit.
There remain very important open questions and the exact level of low risk needs to be better understood. I’ve been a bit of a broken record in this forum beating the drum for the vital importance of getting this data pinned down for a long time now. But the facts are not quite clear that kids, especially elementary grades and younger, very rarely get significantly ill with COVID-19 and rarely transmit it when they do.
For context, this piece is an opinion piece and it’s in an early learning publication. They clearly have a bias. This stands out as some evidence of their bias.
Also in that NPR bit:
Someone will have to pay for the added costs.
As a counterpoint, this was written in early May 2020 so it’s possible some things have changed although I don’t see them.
There are several factors to consider in opening the schools. The safety of the children is an important one. But the safety of the teachers and staff, the comfort of the parents and the safety of the students’ elder relatives is also factored into the mix.
If schools open too early when the numbers don’t warrant it, or they don’t have all the systems in place, it might require another shutdown. In September when some parents are back at work, that might require elder relatives to care for the children, putting more of the elderly at risk.
Yes what has changed since early May is the accumulating stronger evidence that children DON’T transmit so effectively, especially true for elementary school children and below who may also get COVID less frequently as well.
Agreed with your cites on many of the downsides of having schools closed in the Fall.
And agree important to determine how much of the in school actions are necessary (at some cost but also saving many more costs) and what ends up being just theater (not worth the cost).
I haven’t been keeping up with this topic, but I haven’t seen much evidence that children don’t transmit so effectively. Last I remember, there were models that showed that because of their increased circle of contacts, children do have the ability to transmit to many people. Your argument, last I read, was that there wasn’t any “real world” evidence for the models. But “real world” evidence can only happen on a case by case basis as the schools open back up so there’s no evidence to prove it either way. The places where some schools have opened up and are being used as exemplars are mostly places where the infection rate is already low. That’s not the case with the US at this point…
That would be assuming that the schools were opened before that, leading to that situation of a shutdown in the Fall. If the schools didn’t open at all and weren’t planned to open, the situation might be different. The parents might plan differently.
On a micro level, I’m really torn about sending my own 8 year old to school this fall. I mostly send him for the social aspect. If what we really wanted was to max out his educational potential, we’d home school. But will a COVID school offer any social benefits? Masks and faceshields, plexiglass dividers down the center of the room, sack lunches at desks, temp checks, constant worry about transmission. The district will offer an on-line option, and I wonder if that wouldn’t be better for another year. My husband is his primary caretaker, and we’ve delayed his going back to work a year because everything is so uncertain. Also, the logistics will be bad. I bet early drop off will disappear, which means I can’t drop him off at school early enough to get to MY school in time to do temp checks and distribute face shields to my students.
I don’t know what we will do. We could manage school at home, but the social stuff is huge.
I think it would be a horrible shame if my 5 yr old grand daughter were not able to attend kindergarten this fall. At least in some limited fashion. I acknowledge opening schools would likely result in some amount of increased risk for some at risk populations - possibly including my soon-to-be 60 yr old self.
Wait, am I understanding this right? We can’t open schools because if we did, we might have to close them again, and them being closed would be terrible, so we have to leave them closed?
I think there might be some flaws in that argument.
There have been places with low infection rates where schools have successfully opened and not had to close for the most part. There have been places like Israel where schools have had to close after re-opening.
Schools closing after re-opening pose different problems than places waiting until the infection rate is low enough to hopefully remain open.
There’s “not keeping up” and there is not bothering to read what has been put in front of you.
There is of course no question that in a society that is having cases among the general pubic staff of schools will get disease, from outside of school activities and other staff that they are in close contact with if nothing else. So far though, Israel inclusive, there is no sign that kids have been spreading it much to teachers, to each other, or to parents and grandparents.
But it won’t be the Kindergarten you are imagining, regardless: it will be masks, and no touching, and six feet apart, plexiglass dividers and daily temp checks. It may just be what it is, but I think we have to understand that this is going to be stressful and frustrating for the littles
The way we did it in the spring: 48 hours warning, no planning, no expectations for kids or teachers, was the worst of all possible worlds. We shouldn’t do that again. So even if we start school, we need to be ready to cancel it quickly. We have to maintain that readiness and have an evolving plan.
Not sure that such will be the case. It has NOT been how preschools have done it very successfully and KG is the transition from that preschool set up to a more traditional sitting at desks one. Temperature checks yes. Wearing masks? Likely if just for the appearance and the messaging it sends. Plexiglass shield at office desks sure but not in the classroom.
It may be that for the age group none of those are actually adding very much at all. Even in Israel where few precautions of the sort are in place at all there have been no examples of spread in KGs or from KGs. Very few even in Middle Schools and staff seeming to be the main drivers of flares even in High Schools. But until it is more established some actions of caution are prudent as they open up.
I’m sitting here looking at my district’s current plan. It’s absolutely plexiglass dividers in the classroom so that all students are either 6 ft apart or have plexiglass between them. It’s masks on the bus, temp checks at every door, face shields all day. Lunch 6 ft apart. It doesn’t matter if we need it, and I don’t disagree that masks and handwashing would be enough. But that’s what it’s going to be, I think. So is that going to benefit my son socially enough to be worth going to?
And you see my frustration about sports. We are going to do all that in the classroom, just in case, but football will go on.
Yeah - we’ll see. But I think SOMETHING with whatever limitations, will confer great benefits outweighing the risks of delayed development/socialization.
I was talking to the dental hygienist yesterday (yes, I went to the dentist), and she said something along the lines of, if you have a little kid wear a mask, that’s the best way to encourage them to touch their faces more! Damned if you do…
What you describe abut plexiglass/etc impresses me as pretty blatant bureaucratic overkill. And yeah - fuck sports (at least for the time being.)
I should point out that the 2 youngest families I’m the closest to - my dtr and a nephew - are causing me the greatest confusion re: COVID precautions. Both families have 2 kids under the age of 6. Both families were among the strictest re: the initial shutdown - but now as we have progressed to subsequent “stages”, both families have been about the most willing of folk in my immediate circle to cast off restrictions, engage in social interactions, etc. They aren’t going to raves or anything, but I see FB posts of them with their arms around unmasked friends, going to public pools, hosting gatherings of 20+…
Just really confuses me, as I thought there was insufficient reason for them to be quite as restrictive as they were then (tho I respected their choices), yet now, they are pushing the boundaries of what I personally am comfortable with.
Also, I’m becoming what I consider fatalistic. I guess there is a different situation if an extended family has an 80 yr old grandparent w/ COPD living w/ them. For them, the probably shouldn’t want a kid going to kindergarten. But I’m kinda taking an approach that I’ll try to be as healthy as I can, I’ll personally take the precautions I feel appropriate, and if I happen to get sick and die, well - that’s my bad luck.
Let the kids and young people go to school - and socialize within reason and with precautions. If kids and young people tend to get the disease, well, make it possible for older and at risk people to shelter from them.
Oh, I absolutely agree that the way it was done in the spring was terrible. Especially when the initial messaging was “schools don’t need to make plans, because it’ll only be three weeks”, and then transitioned to “We can make it indefinite, because schools are doing so much”.
Now, nearly all schools are making contingency plans, including for how to manage it if they do need to close suddenly again. Which is prudent.
I don’t know what the plans are for sports around here. I think most schools are saying “we’ll wait and see, but probably not”. Which I agree is the right move, but then, I’ve thought for years that school sports were a net negative anyway.