Another way of looking at it: in a dense urban environment it is next to impossible to not have civilians near the kind of targets Israel has been going for. That’s the reality of a really, really dense urban environment.
So describing them as “human shields” is really, really quite silly and merely shows your unrelenting bias.
I don’t know where do you get the idea that there is silence over Syria’s murderous dictator Assad killing his own citizens? I’d love to see a cite of some respected analyst of ME affairs calling for Israel to ease up and at the same time is silent on Syria issue. But, let me clue you in on something – there isn’t one.
The Syrian issue got stopped in its tracks because of two things – Russia and China opposition and a significant degree of probability that alternative may be even worse.
However, this whole idea of bringing Syria into the mix is just a typical case of misdirection in any discussion involving Israel. People have no need to debate Syria as much as Gaza because there is a common agreement on what is going on in Syria whereas with respect to Gaza, people get all up in arms because there is a strong pro-Israeli line that is trying to convince you that Israel is soft and innocent as a lamb, phosphorous bombs notwithstanding.
There is no reason for Hamas militants to set up shop in the middle of a dense urban environment. No responsible leadership would do that. They have other options to fire rockets from less dense areas, say, from a field rather than a school. So, why are they making this choice, you have to ask yourself.
This is factually incorrect; while the average population density in the Gaza Strip is indeed very high, it is not one huge megalopolis – there’s plenty of open space in the Eastern and Northern parts of the Strip, and some in the South (outside of Rafah) as well, IIRC.
The Madrid bombing was conducted by Muslim militants not by the ETA.
The Irgun did. Their leader and founder, Menachem Begin went on to found the Likud Party, the current ruling party of Israel and became an Israeli PM. Lehi did as well, who’s leader, Yitzhak Shamir also went on to be an Israeli PM.
Hiding amongst civilians is standard practice of insurgent/partisan/guerilla groups.
Sure, we get a lot more of the “gee I wonder what is so different about Israel that people criticize israel and not all these other countries that do even worse stuff”
But for some people it isn’t enough to just IMPLY that antisemitism is the root of criticism of Israel, at least one poster has just come out and said it.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14307373&postcount=278
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14307373&postcount=278
You were posting on that thread until the day before. maybe it just dropped off your radar but he is not alone in implying that critics of israel are anti-semites.
When a poster responds to a criticism of Israel by wondering out loud what it is about israel that makes people criticize Israeli misdeeds while largely ignoring the misdeeds of folks like the late Kim Jong Il or Bashir Assad, they are implying that the unique thing about Israel that is drawing so much criticism is the fact that Israel is filled with jews and the source of much of the criticism is antisemitism.
I think Brazil84 laid it out the mentality of those who ask these sort of questions pretty well.
There was no rebuttal from the Israel apologist side denouncing Brazil84 the way a lot of pro-choice folks denounce Der Trihs.
Its more than misdirection, the implication is frequently that people are picking on Israel where they wouldn’t pick on others because israel is Jewish.
Considering the terrain and mission objectives, that’s a hell of a good ratio. Regardless of who started what, Israel has the absolute right and duty to its own citizens to engage in counter-battery fire against rocket artillery units that are actively attacking civilian populations. Insofar as I haven’t seen any evidence that Israel is doing anything other than hitting rocket launch sites, Hamas carries a lion’s share of the blame for deliberately choosing launch sites in dense civilian areas.
The IDF has around 350 bomb-capable aircraft, four battalions of tube artillery, and one of rocket artillery. We have seen (in southern Lebanon) what happens when Israel exercises unrestrained, non-precision warfare on a populated area. We are not seeing that in Gaza now.
Another way of looking at it is that if one cares about one’s fellow citizens, one doesn’t set up artillery in said citizens’ backyards and shoot said artillery at random civilians in the next country over. “Human shields” is perfectly apt given that these are terror weapons, not military ones.
That’ a recipe for military success; import a bunch of missiles in tunnels from over the Egyptian border, transport them through Gaza city to the farmland beyond, and set them up in a bunch of fields.
Against a country armed by the USA with every state of the art weaponry, inc. Apache helicopters, ground to ground missiles, satellite surveillance, etc, what could possibly go wrong.
So what you’re saying is that being smart is more important that being right?
What would go wrong is that Israel would then be able to destroy the rocket launchers and thereby defend their own citizens. Hamas wants to kill Israelis.
What would also go wrong is that Israel would not kill as many civilians, which is contrary to the intentions of the Hamas terrorists. They want their own civilians to die and be injured, for propaganda purposes.
Regards,
Shodan
So using human shields is the smart thing to do?
If you are Hamas, yes. But smart != moral.
Regards,
Shodan
Then as long as we agree Hamas is using human shields, let’s do away with these silly accusations of Israel slaughtering civilians.
Israel is doomed!! Anonymous has decided to weigh in, so it’s all over but the screaming! :eek:
(Why is this thread still in GD??)
i was commenting on the military acumen of the armchair generals here abouts.
How some of you aren’t Joint Chiefs I’ll never know.
Well, we’re intelligent enough to recognize a rhetorical question.
Because nothing the Palestinians say could ever be true:
B’Tselem - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
Their latest update:
The past 12 years, a break-down – 29.9.2000-30.9.2012:
But the whole point of using human shields is so Hamas and its apologists can make the accusations.
They need something to fire up their own people, so they will support the Hamas position that they want to destroy Israel and grab her land.
Regards,
Shodan
Never mind this - how are they fixed for spices?
Regards,
Shodan