American civilians are legitimate targets in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

I posted this on my church website. I am trying to raise awareness about the suffering of the Palestinian people. I don’t think Jesus would be down with the concept. But that is a debate for another thread.

The post will be seen as very controversial in evangelical Christian circles, probably not so much so here.

There are some facts and background that you probably are aware of, but I included for the benefit of its original intended audience.

Anyway, I wanted to post it here and get reactions.

I guess a key missing part of your post is the part about how Hamas started the war.

No. If you want people to take your thesis seriously, you need to make sure it is free of assertions that are factually incorrect.

Putting aside your biased comments, Hamas isn’t just firing Qassams, but also Grads, and possibly Oghabs or Ra’ads.

If you’re talking to evangelical Christians, presumably their immediate response will be:

  • don’t let the terrorists win
  • support our troops
  • this has happened since we elected a Democrat

newcrasher, what is your recommended solution?

When? Last month?

Well, I doubt you’ll find many supporters here.

The notion that by voting for given representatives every member of a population is culpable for their nation’s actions is nonsense. Palestine was not a major vote issue just as lots of other conflicts in the world were not, and both parties took pretty much the same line on the conflict, so what is Joe American to do?
Proclaim lack of support for America’s policy on Palestine? Lots of Americans have done this, yet they’re still in the firing line according to your reasoning.

You ask why America has not yet been attacked by Hamas. Basically you’re asking why they have not attacked random US civilians because a proportion of those civilians may hold views contrary to their own.
Is “sanity” a sufficient answer?

Also you neglected to mention the aid that the US provides to Palestine: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/crs/45198.pdf

It’s true, I believe, that America gives more aid to Israel than Palestine. But look at it this way: plenty of countries give more aid to Palestine than Israel. Should Israel nuke those countries?

I don’t think that’s accurate. It was an integral part of the Ottoman Empire. It wasn’t a country. Depending on what maps you are looking at, you might also see what ended up as Jordan.

If you are going to talk about American aid to Israel, you shouldn’t ignore American aid to other countries in the region, like Egypt and Jordan.

Where did you get the $10 billion figure? My reference shows it as $2.4 billion.

If Hamas tried to export their terrorism to the USA, it would be an incredibly stupid thing for them to do.

Israel has a right to defend itself. Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza have done everything possible to keep the border crossings with Israel closed. They seem to be under the misconception that Israel is obligated to never react to their provocations.

Well, strictly speaking Hamas never stopped attacking Israel, ever, and simply changes the tempo over time.

I don’t ever remember voting to kill Palestinian civilians. Even giving you the widest leeway to assume that I, as a voting American, have some responsibility for taking away the land of the Palestinians and somehow fueling the conflict, that doesn’t give anyone any justification for killing me.

The OP also needs to define “legitimate”. According to the Geneva Conventions, civilians are never legitimate targets.

I’m sorry, you’re going to have to describe this path in greater detail.
Besides, your message ultimately seems to be “cower in fear of what might happen!” and I’m not sure how well that will sell to Americans. In fact, were Hamas to start staging attacks in the U.S., I expect the greater call will be to obliterate them utterly.

This is actually pretty much the argument ObL uses to justify terrorist actions against American citizens and to try to eel around Islamic prescriptions against slaughtering civilians. Or in other words al Qaeda has already drawn that line between ( some hazy ideation of ) American international politics and its voters.

However it’s a specious and tortured justification when he does it and I’m afraid it’s specious and tortured when you do it as well, for reasons that have already been pointed out. There is never a legitimate reason to target civilians in this day and age.

As for Palestine, the region has been called that for centuries ( millenia, really ). As a name it’s comparable to Le Midi or Languedoc to refer to southern France - it’s never had any meaning as an independent political entity

Its funny in not-really-funny-kind-of-way that Hamas wants Obama to do something when he’s not even in office, and how some are saying that Isreal’s response is disproportionate. If you shoot at me with a .22 and I whip out an M16 you probably shouldn’t have shot at me in the first place.

It’s more like someone throwing a rock at you and you responding by blowing up his house and killing his whole family.

I just hope Israel finishes this before people start to forget exactly why they attacked in the first place and criticism against them builds up again. It really sucks to be Israel, knowing you only have 3 or 4 months to find and eradicate the group who shoots rockets at random civilians before the world decides you’re not allowed to chase them anymore.

Forget it, Newcrasher, it’s Israel. There is absolutely nothing Israel can ever do, and no line it can ever cross that Americans will ever criticize. It’s the ultimate sacred cow, even in relatively liberal communities like this. Americans basically see Palestinians as evil and subhuman and deserving of extinction. Israel is never anything but a suffering martyr longing only for peace. You’re never going to change these people’s minds.

By the way, American civilians are not legitmate targets, but neither are Palestinian civilians.

Now that’s a complete exaggeration of the truth.