There you go again. Painting the other side in the most extreme terms possible instead of appreciating that there is a fair amount of gray here. There has been nothing posted here that characterizes Palestinians as subhuman or evil. NOTHING. The only misrepresentation made have been made by those vilifying Israel. And who claim that because America voters put in a government that supports the evil Israelis they have made themselves and their families, as civilians, a legitimate target of attack.
I hope that’s not the case. There has to be a line somewhere that people will at least stop and think “Hmm, maybe supporting Israel isn’t such a good idea after all…”
Oh, really Diogenes - you know better than that. You’re a smart guy, but you’re letting your hyperbole run away with you again. I know you’re exaggerating for effect, but it usually isn’t helpful in a thread like this, generally triggering a pointless hijack over the particulars of your own thesis, while ignoring the OP’s.
On the other hand I always find these sort of posts useful as a representation of the different perceptions posters bring to the table about this little community. “This board is hopelessly anti-Arab!” “This board is full of lefty haters of Israel!” At times I find the disconnects slightly charming in a dysfunctional sort of way. Other times it’s just frustrating.
I said it does NOT make American civilians legitimate targets, but there’s an irony here that those who are offended by this thread title have no problem seeing Palestinian children become “collateral damage,” and use basically the same rationale.
I’m trying to mirror the kind of knee-jerk, unnuanced, black/white oversimplification that’s always used by Israel supporters to steamroll any attempt to argue that the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances or that any aggressive act by Israel may not be 100% justified.
ETA, I will say to this board’s credit that no one has resorted to the “antisemite” card. Not even the Israeli posters. I appreciate that.
Perhaps if the OP asked if it would be acceptable if American children became collateral damage, this would be relevant. As it stands, it seems pretty straightforward that we’re not talking about collateral damage. It also appears that you disagree with the OP. So…
Who do these “representatives” represent? They represent the people who elect them. We cannot all go to DC, so we send these people in OUR stead. We are certainly responsible for the decisions of our elected officials.
It seems to me that by your reasoning, the civilians in Gaza are legitimate targets. After all, they did elect Hamas . . no?
I too, believe it’s always been a geographical area whose boundaries have changed over time; never a country. The meaning of Palestine has also changed over time. Today it can also mean a proposed Palestinian state.
I often wonder why the Arab extremists who make up much of the leadership of the Palestine region today, so often pick a fight with Israel, knowing full well of the ass whupin’ they are about to receive and are receiving. Were their coffers running low again, and needed to appeal to world aid once again after the onslaught? How often do they do this? And how much of this region is dependent on handouts from other countries?
I feel for the innocent Palestinian people, I really do. It’s a shame they voted in Hamas.
That line has been crossed countless times. And is now crossed again. But raise any objections and the well is immediately poisoned with some nonsense about antisemitism. And any reasonable debate or argument is made impossible.
Diogenes made a very good analogy above, in regards rock throwing. Israel is guilty of, at least in my opinion, crimes against humanity for it’s ongoing blockade and invasion.
But nobody listens. They find damned near anything Israel does to be perfectly acceptable. And damn themselves by association.
According to the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits the collective punishment of a people. Obviously all Gazans are being punished for the miltitary actions of Hamas. No doubt Hamas uses this to their advantage by hiding among the populace. However as densely populated as Gaza is, it would be difficult NOT to do this.
The past decade has proven that the Geneva Conventions are a hando moral guide, but not practically useful in war.
You may use the most common understanding of “legitimate”.
I think we can all agree there.
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So what should Israel have done about the rocket attacks? I’m not sure full scale ground invasion and bombing whole apartment buildings is the right answer either, but you can’t honestly be suggesting that Israel do nothing at all in response to hundreds of attacks aimed at their citizens.
I’m honestly curious about what people like you think IS an appropriate response in Israel’s position.
You wouldn’t remember voting to kill Palestinians because of course you didn’t. You elected leaders who push the right buttons for you.
So did Gaza, but that doesn’t make it right to blow up a random Gaza bus station.
Assuming this is true, it would seem to be legitimate by your reasoning.
How about making the living conditions in Gaza tolerable? The shithole that it is, with no hope or expectation of improvement, breeds the hatred and hopelessness that allows them to lash out.
Hamas is a collective fuckup. No doubt about that. They are driven by understandable rage at the state of the Palestinian people. Their impotent attacks generally serve to to get the shit clobbered out of their people, and not much more.
But the collective enforcement of misery on a people does not create an environment conducive to peace. In fact just the opposite.
Perhaps this is true. So why should American civilians, with their tacit support and financial support of the military hardware being used against the Gazans, be immune from being legitimate targets?
I don’t know, I suppose it depends how you define “legitimate.” In any event, the residents of Gaza are fortunate that Israel does not see things your way.