Opinions/experience with greyhound aggression?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m a huge dog lover, and have had dogs - mostly Goldens and our current goldendoodle - throughout my adult life (I’m 61). One of my daughters has adopted greyhounds. She currently has her 2d and 3d.

We had a very unpleasant experience over the weekend, in which her 2 greyhounds attacked our dog (fortunately, no injury.) Later in the weekend, her 2 dogs got into a fight, where one savagely mauled the other necessitating surgery. She contacted the local rescue organization, which immediately rehoused the aggressor with a single man who had no kids and no other animals.

My daughter and her husband believed the dogs chased after my dog when he started running. He’s a complete baby who squeals when you look at him cross-eyed (very annoying, and we are trying to address it.). So when they chased him, he started squealing, and they changed from chasing to a full attack. They say the one GH is from Mexico, where, for all they know, she may have been baited with live animals.

Me, stupidly, I just thought it was rough-housing, as I’ve experienced how many thousands of times. Fortunately, my SIL knew better, waded in, and caught one both hauling them apart.

My daughter and her H told me of their prior GH. When at a dog park, some other dogs across the park were playing and squealing, which turned the GH into attack mode, and he ran over at 45 MPH and got his jaws around another dog’s neck.

I’ve encountered many GHs - including my daughters’ 3. Some have been extremely laidback, others a tad high strung, but basically goofy and harmless. I’m not a big fan as they strike me as pretty high maintenance in terms of health and training, but to each his/her own. But I’ve never heard ANYTHING suggesting they might be a danger to other dogs - or perhaps squealing young children.

I’ve heard that you cannot allow them off leash, because they will chase after a rabbit/squirrel and not come back. But I never heard of the sort of prey drive I witnessed this weekend. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? I often encounter GH rescue info and events, but have never heard them described as anything other than goofy couch potatoes. This experience makes me wonder if GHs really SHOULD be rescued.

I am VERY comfortable with dogs, and read them VERY well. Dogs generally love me. My wife jokingly calls me the dog whisperer. I like most dogs considerably better than I like nearly all people. But this really made me second-guess my idea of my abilities/knowledge. There were NO warning signs. Just an immediate transition from goofy and happy to killer.

My current dog is not perfect, but I am confident, and our vet confirms, that his behavior is within the normal range. And my sister - whose H is terrified of all dogs, says our pup is better behaved than 90% of the dogs they encounter while walking/biking.

2

I’m making totally WAGs, here. Feel free to refute.

Rescued greyhounds come from the racing environment. They are trained to WANT that decoy. It’s not hard to believe that some dogs are hardwired to see “decoy” in anything that moves, and other dogs would fill this need easily.

I’d think it would take just ONE attack on another dog and the trainer would be on the phone to the rescue group. Perhaps the dog is classified as “unsuitable for racing” instead of “vicious son-of-a-bitch.”

Thank god the errant hound attacked another dog and not a toddler. I would suggest your daughter make a much more extended query as to the background of the rescue and just WHY the dog had been “retired” from racing.

~VOW

3

Yep. My father had a Cairn Terrier that was chased and mauled to death by an ex-racing Greyhound. Not the dog’s fault - they are trained to chase the hare - anything fluffy and running away is likely to trigger that conditioned (not hardwired exactly) reflex.

4

Yeah - the smaller one that got mauled had a successful racing career, as had the previous one which was involved in the dog park incident. As I perceived it, my dog ran, and the smaller GH chased him - which I interpreted as fun. My dog didn’t like it, and started squealing, at which point both GHs clearly ramped it up.

The GH that got rehired was, indeed, classified as unsuitable for racing, but they had no idea why. She is much younger than the other one.

Well, if not the dog’s fault, then certainly the owner’s. I’ll have to look around GH rescue sites and see how prominently they describe these dogs as potentially viscous. Really sad if these dogs are abused and/or trained in such a way. But if they are, I really question whether they should be readily adopted out as pets.

5

The AGE of the rescue should be a dead giveaway. You get a dog right out of puppyhood, ask careful questions! A dog which is retired by a certain age would probably be a better bet. Then you only have to worry about degenerative and repetitive motion injuries.

~VOW

6

It’s a difficult situation.

Greyhound racing involves training the dog to single-mindedly chase the hare at top speed; the instinct that is being exploited here is their natural predatory behaviour so when they catch up, they will kill, but the individual dogs, once they pass their peak performance, are no use for racing any more. They still need exercise in the form of running, so they can’t just be walked on a lead for the rest of their lives.

I’m not sure what would be a humane solution. Euthanising dogs just because they are slowing down and can’t win a race seems pretty unacceptable, but so does retiring them and exercising them where they may attack smaller dogs.

7

I dunno. Like I said, I really love dogs. But this weekend really changed my opinion of this breed. As I understand, there are only 1-2 GH tracks in the US, but still plenty in Mexico and elsewhere. From what I understand, breeding/training/racing conditions are pretty brutal. Not the dog’s fault, but once they’ve been molded in that way, I question their suitability as pets in any but a few VERY constrained situations.

8

We raise saluki, one of the oldest sighthound breeds. They have never been in a racing environment but the chase instinct in them is strong. We would never let them off-lead in an area where other dogs are present, especially small, fluffy ones. Once we tried out a dog park. It had a timid dog area fenced off from the main part, and it being empty, turned our two guys loose there. When some people showed up with purse dogs we gathered ours up and left, being the intruders. At home we have almost an acre that we can turn them loose in. They sleep 20 hours a day (waiting for that gazelle, we say) but when they run, they want to run.

Back in November we acquired an Anatolian shepherd puppy. We turned them out separately until they knew each other and the puppy was large enough to defend herself, about a month. Now we turn them out together where she and the younger saluki roughhouse. From the sounds you’d expect nothing left but bloody doggy bits but so far there have been no injuries. The older saluki just sits on the porch watching them and doubtless thinking, “Kids…”

9

Echoing others, they are hounds bred for a strong prey drive. They often don’t get along with other dogs. I don’t think breeders particularly care if they are inclined to try to bite and kill other dogs because they are muzzled when they are together.

I grew up with a girl whose father raised racing greyhounds. I never saw him or her with the dogs because they weren’t pets and she and I didn’t hang out at dog racing parks. I will say, based on my sample of one, that it takes a special kind of asshole to raise racing greyhounds.

10

Thanks for all the info. I simply had never known GHs would “turn” in this manner this quickly.

I had thought my daughter a responsible and informed pet owner. She and her H had volunteered at GH rescue facilities in 3 states. They have expressed strong opinions on what various faculties did right and wrong. They spent MANY thousands of dollars on vet bills on their dogs (WAY more than I would spend on any one dog.). They put considerable effort into exercising them. They both have advanced bio degrees, so are aware of such things as breeding and genetics.

I really wish they had simply told us NOT to bring our 40# dog to their house, or to keep him/them leashed at all times. The incident happened after my SIL had invited me to go with him and the dogs on a hike. As we got home and entered the yard, we removed the leashes. I wish he had told me to keep my dog on the leash.

I suspect the dogs were also highly strung over the fact that my daughter had her sister and 2 young children staying with her. In retrospect, both girls should have known that those dogs and 2 small children were a horrible idea. After a rough first night, the GH owning dtr decided to kennel her GHs for the duration of his sister’s visit. The GHs were at the kennel when the one attacked the other.

We were staying w/ my son, his wife, and their 2 cats. On the first day, one of the cats clawed our dog in the eye. It was a pretty brutal weekend all around!

11

I’m surprised your daughter, with all that experience you say she has around Greyhounds, didn’t know any better than to leave her two hounds unmuzzled in a yard with a smaller, fluffy dog they didn’t know well. Especially one that is prone to squealing like a prey animal.

I’ve been involved in Greyhound adoption since the early 1990s and have owned 6 myself.

Greyhounds have been bred and trained for thousands of years to chase and kill prey, far, far before racing for sport was invented.

What that means is that many of them, when they see a small, furry thing start running, is that they will chase it. If it squeals, then it’s really on. This is instinct that has been honed by selective breeding and training for a very, very long time.

They are not vicious, evil killers. They are doing what they have been bred and trained to do. When you know this, then you act accordingly when other dogs, especially dogs that your hounds have never met before, are around.

You introduce the dogs on neutral territory (ALL dog owners should do this when introducing strange dogs, not just hound owners), you introduce on lead, and then if everything goes well you keep your hounds muzzled and let the dogs interact in a fenced-in area. You do not leave the area, you watch their behavior very carefully.

Not all Greyhounds have huge amounts of prey drive. Some can live peaceably with cats and other small dogs. Some cannot. Part of the adoption group’s responsibility is figuring out which is which, but they cannot test for all circumstances.

As for Greyhounds and children: children are not prey animals, so they don’t bring out this instinct, but there are still some adoption groups who are reluctant to adopt hounds out to people with small kids because some folks just don’t do a good job teaching their kids to respect a dog’s boundaries. That greatly increases the chances of a kid getting bitten - by any dog.

I’ll add that I am not a fan of dog parks - too often people don’t pay attention to what their dog is doing, or ignore the signs and take their tiny dog into the area with the big dogs, and that’s when bad things can happen.

12

Thanks for the cogent post. Yeah - I think I was just ignorant about greyhounds - despite my pretty significant familiarity with other sorts of dogs. And my daughter - who impresses me as somewhat holding herself out as somewhat of an expert as to greyhounds and dogs in general, neglected to warn/inform me or take sufficient precautions.

I’ve known other GHs that cohabited with little fluff balls. They generally impressed me as gentle and laid back. I had never seen this sort of prey drive in action before. It was quite impressive.

Personally, I do not favor dogs that have this sort of drive bred into them.

13

And they are! Until something trips that instinctual switch in some of them.

All dogs are predators. Some folks don’t like to think of them that way because they are also our friends and helpmates, but it’s a fact and something best not forgotten.

I loved all my dogs very much, but I was always very aware what that sweet pup snoozing with his head in my lap was capable of in the right circumstances.

14

Yeah - and I know that even my favored Goldens are recoded as having committed a huge number of serious bites. But in mauling reports I often read about dogs - too often described as pits - turning on a dime, or out of the blue. As I said, I’m very comfortable with most dogs. I just had never personally experienced big dogs “flipping a switch” that quickly. It was not behavior I considered attractive or desirable.

15

I’ve had multiple German Shorthaired Pointers (well, one German Wirehaired Pointer as well) and they also have a very strong prey drive which is why they make excellent hunting dogs. And just like GHs and @DesertDog 's Salukis, they are extremely fast (our current GSP routinely hits 42 MPH according to his GPS collar). GSPs love love love to play with other dogs, but sometimes they exhibit what @Dinsdale saw: A smaller dog becomes prey looking to them when the dog gets scared. I have never had one of my pointers attack a dog, but they have scared the crap out of a couple. We now e-collar train our dogs and have no issues with this. We also did the training because they will go miles after deer, chukars, quail, etc. Our current GSP will call off a chase with one beep (tone only) of his collar. And GSPs need routine off-leash exercise. We hike 10 miles and he will do over 30.

16

@Dinsdale

With pits, it’s not only the potential of “out of the blue” vicious behavior, it’s the characteristics that have been bred into the animal. Pits have a huge, oversize lower jaw, and the heavy musculature to go with it. The dog is bred to crush large bones and spinal cords.

~VOW

17

I think you are conflating behavior with prey with behavior towards humans. These are not the same things.

People are not prey. However, every single day people do dumb shit around dogs and they get bitten. Some dogs are also ill-socialized and don’t react well to novel stimuli. They might be perfectly fine in a certain set of circumstances and not in others. Some dogs have been bred and trained to be suspicious of strangers, with predictable results. That’s not prey drive, that’s aggression.

Another thing Greyhounds are bred for are tractability with people. Especially in a racing environment, the dogs get handled by a lot of people, including people they don’t know well. A dog that isn’t easy to handle isn’t desirable. Your typical Greyhound is pretty easy to handle. Vet schools, at least in the past, took ex-racing greyhounds as experimental and clinical examination subjects for that very reason.

I never had or saw a Greyhound so much as raise a lip to a vet. I could clean and bandage wounds on my own and other people’s hounds without any issue. This trait also makes them lousy watchdogs because they don’t care about strangers.

Their ‘switch’ has to do with a perfectly normal and natural instinct that has been dialed up to 11 through breeding and training by humans over centuries and should be no surprise at all. It is not focused at people but toward other animals they perceive as prey due to its size and behavior.

Compare that to the tiny toy Poodle I had as a kid who tried to bite the vet every.single.time. we had to take him in. He was afraid and he reacted in a very typical way for a dog who was afraid. That’s aggression, not prey drive, and we hadn’t done a good job with him to socialize him for the situation. Our fault, not his.

18

Had two greyhounds and a whippet a bit back. They all cohabited nicely with a pet rabbit. One was a doofus goofball, retired early because he had the canine equivalent of ADHD so lost focus racing. You don’t win then your career is over. The other came to us a year older and was the classic refined lady. The first’s major problem was bad gums with smelly breath. Very calm sweet things.

Honestly the whippet had higher prey drive. And the adoption agencies tested for prey drive possibly cat friendly too.

But this was a different time! The tracks in Wisconsin and even Florida socialized their dogs and took good care of them. They considered them valuable investments.

The tracks left, often not of this country, simply do not do either. I wouldn’t do a retired racer now.

I do wonder if a bred as pet market will develop or only mixed as lurchers?

19

There are AKC-bred greyhounds, but there are only a couple hundred a year that are bred. Not sure they would be willing or able to meet any demand.