Opinions on longterm care insurance

In My Humble Opinion
21

Sure, if that’s what she clearly indicated as her preference at a time that she was in full control of her faculties. And I would get great personal satisfaction from knowing I assisted my mom do what she strongly wanted, when she was incapable of doing it herself.

And not wanting to be a burden is just a part of my reasoning. My self image is as a reasonably competent individual. If I get to the point where I lack BOTH a certain degree of mental AND physical capability - well, that is not a person I wish to be. That is not how I wish to be remembered. That is not an existence I want any resources - mine, my family’s, or society’s - expended upon.

I acknowledge that I have a prejudice towards people who are - in some way - capable of contributing, or are at least independent. Many might think that makes me a horrible person, but that is who I am. Other people are free to make their own choices. I’m not advocating killing of people below a certain functional standard, just expressing my preference that I don’t want to be such a person. I’ve had 56 years of reasonable competence, and I firmly believe that this life is all we get. Sure, I’d like to live to be 100 (if in reasonable health) - but have no interest in lingering beyond a certain point.

I don’t understand YOUR position - if I can’t count on my family, then who can I count on? If my society would permit medical-assisted suicide, I would have no need to ask this of my kids.

If your mom asked you to help her overdose when she reached a certain point, what emotions would you feel from taking any measures to extend her life beyond that point? I would rather have my last memory be of assisting my mom in a huge and personal way - rather than recalling an extended gradual decline to the point at which the shell in the bed bore no resemblance to the person who had been my mother.

As Tzigone observes, it is unlikely that a pillow would be involved. As my son, the engineer, helpfully observed, “Most pillows lack sufficient density such that too much air would get through. But I’ll take care of you, dad!” :wink: I imagine the most likely would be amassing sufficient meds (or scoring illegal drugs) to assist me in ODing on.

22

A. She’s from the Depression. You can never have too much money saved, nor can you ever spend principal. After a lifetime of thinking that way she’s simply too inflexible to learn new tricks at the age where she’s past being able to spend her total principal almost no matter how hard she tried. Falling for con-men not included. She also brings home extra paper napkins from restaurants. Do you know how expensive those things are !! :eek:
B. IIRC premiums were about $2000 a year 15 years ago. They’re age based, so a younger person might pay less. They also depend on the daily rate they’ll pay out and the lifetime maximum they’ll pay out. So you can offset all, or less than all, of your likely needs. At proportionate costs.

One of the neat deals with her plan is that once you start to use it, you stop having to pay premiums until you stop using it. Which makes customer service sense for a temporary situation like recovering from surgery, etc. But doesn’t make overall economic sense for supporting old age / decrepitude care UFN.

Just like how she’s getting back 30x what she put into social security, she’s getting back at least 10x what she paid in premiums before they suspended. I wish like heck I could find more investments like that.
C. Beware that the $140K is very much a low-ball figure. And is backwards looking in an industry now having 5-10% year inflation rates. She’s been stupid-frugal in consuming only that much. She’d have done a lot more living and a lot less existing if she’d consumed 2x that much help over the same time interval and had also started 5+ years sooner.

If she does end up in assisted living, the minimum acceptable places around here run $4k/mo = $50K/year. Per person if you’re a couple. That burn rate can eat most people’s life savings pretty quickly.

We originally bought the policy for her on the semi-joking basis that we were insuring our inheritance. That LTC policy money would pay her end-of-life warehousing if necessary before she spent her principal. Principal that would become our principal when her “estate matures” as we say in the wills & trusts biz.

I bought a similar plan for my wife and I for slightly different reasons. Ref Eva Luna’s stories and usedtobe’s ref to “spending down” just above.

We’re well-set financially. But if one of us gets expensively screwed up we might be forced into spending all our combined assets early. Leaving the other impoverished in early- or mid-retirement.

I can afford to insure that risk away. So I do. If I was single I’d probably self-insure that risk. Which is really meaning I’d gamble on maybe getting Medicaid warehoused at end of life, but much more likely to expire first. I don’t have kids so neither I nor imaginary they have any interest in insuring my outgoing estate’s value.
More:
Trinopus’ post is really the scare story here. Lots of major insurance cos got into LTC. Most would now love to withdraw, keeping the premiums and never making most of the contracted payouts. Or “withdraw” by pricing the product out of reach of the current customers.

The only thing stopping them is 50 different state insurance commissions. Some of which are now controlled by hard-right governors and legislatures who never saw a regulation they liked.

This is the only part of my LTC arrangements that give me any concern.

This whole ghastly conundrum is what comes from having a society that refuses, so far, to have a rational discussion of when being dead is preferable to being warehoused. As somebody at the young tip of the baby boomers, I’m optimistic the older Boomers will ram through the right to assisted suicide before I’m likely to be facing not only that difficult choice, but the need for illegal or violent means to act on the choice.

23

Thanks a lot, LSL

24

The west coast now has “Medically Assisted Suicide” suicide laws.

Actually, the three states have dipped their toes in the pool.

CA had a case of a woman (attractive, white, in her 20’s) move to Oregon to take advantage of its law, and we passed pretty much identical laws out of shame.

They require that two, count 'em TWO! MDs certify that you 6 months or less to live.
Then, if you can find a doc willing to write the 'script (the law does not compel compliance), you get a prescription for enough barbiturates to ensure a quick death.
(these are the drugs that the manufacturers refuse to sell if they suspect they will be used to execute the condemned).

So, you are in horrid pain - if you are lucky, you will be given enough morphine to kill the pain, but not enough to kill. If you are so tolerant of morphine that it no longer can control the pain? Too bad. Sucks to be you.
Meanwhile, your “care” is eating all your money.
If the doc says “You’ll live for 10 more months” you now endure another four months before anybody can give you the barbies.

But - the laws are a start.

Maybe the new administration will be so busy enforcing the Federal laws on weed that they wont notice the “Death Panels”.