Opposing positions you most/least sympathize with

The BBQ Pit
41

I’m going to divide my response into a political answer and a philosophical/religious answer.

Political

Most understand: Death penalty. I completely get the desire to kill the absolutely worst criminals, especially the ones who hurt children. I understand the emotion completely and my opposition to the DP is based on concerns about inherent error in how it’s administered not because I think some people don’t deserve it.

Least understand: Opposition to gay marriage. I’ve never heard an answer that isn’t rooted in either overt homophobia, covert homophobia or some sort of legalistic tautology (gay people can’t get married because “marriage is between a man and a woman.”) I really don’t understand why anybody thinks they would be harmed by it.

Philosophical/Religious

Most understand: Belief in God. Not necessarily belief in miracles but I totally understand that subjective personal experiences can be convincing and real and that a life of faith can seem so innate and organic that you can’t conceive of not believing in god any more than you could conceive of not loving your children.

Least understand: Young Earth Creationism. It seems to me that a sincere belief in this stuff requires such a level of denial and flies so in the face of suffocating contrary evidence that I sometimes wonder if anyone REALLY believes it deep down or if they’re just putting on an act. Listening to somebody defend YEC is like listening to them defend a belief in the Easter Bunny. I feel lile they must be whooshing me.

42

MOST:

– Pro-life.

– The War: Believing that Saddam had WMDs and a nuclear program (I believed these things); believing that he intended to use said weapons in a war of agression, or to sell them to terrorists (I didn’t believe these things but, ok, he’s a bad guy); thinking that U.N. resolutions should have real teeth.
LEAST:

– The War: Going to war for the purpose of turning Iraq into a model for democracy in the Middle East – a noble idea, but a bad gamble. In the long run, Iraq may or may not be better off for our invasion; there are too many variables, both here and the Middle East, for me even to lay odds (and I love to lay odds). In the short run (where “short run” = “ten or more years”), Iraq was and is certain to be much worse off, on the whole. Similarly, the region might be better off for our war in the long run, or we might have so inflamed the Muslim world that it is pushed closer to extremism across the board.

– “Let’s cut taxes and raise spending! Lower taxes will so boost the economy, that tax revenue will actually increase! I swear, this isn’t an incoherent economic plan! Nor is it a ploy designed to create a fiscal crisis that will necessitate massive cuts in the size of government, thus effecting an end-around honest debate about the role of government . . . honest!”

43

If they can come up with a proposed set of programs and tax burdens that they can tolerate, fine. If it’s just “I don’t like paying taxes. I don’t like government.” then I have no use for them. Only the looniest of libertarians advocates no govenment and no taxes at all, the only question among reasonable folks is which programs are appropriate.

44

I think you’re giving them too much credit. My read on this has always been, “Sure, our economic policies are stupid. But we can live high on the hog for a few years and everybody’ll love us. By the time our policies trash the economy, we’ll be out of office and everybody’ll blame the next guy.”

45

I’m sorry, Pollyanna has NOTHING on you! :smiley:

46

As for the gay marriage issue, I just don’t have a dog in the fight.

Am I gay? No.
Am I planning to marry someone gay? No. (see note 1)
Are gay marriages going to have any effect on my ability to get married? No. (see note 2)
If gay people are getting married all around me will that make me gay? No. (see note 3)
Are gay marriages going to cost me any money? No.
Is everyone involved in a gay marriage a consenting adult? Yes.

So I see no reason these two should not wed. Mazeltov.

Note 1 - I’ll admit there is a slight possibility that some lesbian might be prevented from marrying me because she had already married another woman. But it wouldn’t have worked out for us in the long run, so we’re both better off.
Note 2 - Okay, maybe I won’t be able to get a reservation for my reception on the day I wanted because some gay couple booked it. But I think banning gay marriage is overkill. I would however favor a constitutional amendment supporting my right to cut to the front of the line.
Note 3 - This seems too silly to even mention, but some people seem to feel it’s a valid concern

47

This thread alone is worth the cost of subscribing. Snif…

MOST:

ECONOMIC CONSERVATIVES who want to cut way back on government spending and increase corporate outlay. I honestly think that if there wasn’t so much corruption and pork barrel spending on both sides of the aisle, this would make a LOT more sense. In the Real World however, privatization is equated with “make laws that make ME more money.”

CHAIN STORES IN NEIGHBORHOODS: I sympathize more with the small businesses that get run out of town. Plus really, sometimes the precursors are better than their satanic spawns (Peets versus Starbuck’s, for instance, or Sam Adams versus Anchor Brewing). However, there’s a reason these chains/brands are successful-- decent quality, novel ideas, smart marketing. Can’t argue with success.

PRO-LIFERS: What Everyone Else Said above, This is one I’ll absolutely do a gut-check on every once in awhile. But that also includes reviewing the death statistics from the days of backalley abortions.

LEAST:

PRO-LIFERS WHO ONLY WANT ABSTINENCE-ONLY EDUCATION, AND CONSIDER MORNING AFTER PILLS A FORM OF ABORTION: Give me a goddamn break. A full 1/3 (off the top of my head) of pregnancies never get to the second trimester naturally. If we are going to successfully end abortion in this country, we need to education post-pubescent teens and young adults as much as possible about self-esteem, sexuality, birth control and avoiding STDs. Anything else just exposes you as an ignoramus.

ANARCHISTS: Uh-huh, abolishing all forms of government is the answer. Riiiiiiiiiight.

ANTI-GAY MARRIAGE FOLKS: Again, What Everyone Else Said.

CREATIONISTS: Believe anything you want, but this is absolutely NOT science. Quit trying to claim it as such.

48

So, you advocate involuntary servitude?

49

"BUT THEY ARE SINNERS!! THEY ARE ENGAGING IN AN ABOMINATION!! THEY SHOULD BURN IN HELL!!!"
…seriously though, I agree with you. I have no objections, really don’t care that much. :slight_smile:

50

I think I could Libertarians under both “Most” and “Least.” I completely understand economic conservatives, and I respect Libertarians for unflinching commitment to civil liberties. But come on, no public education? Most Libertarians I’ve known have been unable to see the need for some controls to prevent a completely feudal state and to protect people from the ruthless greed of corporations. Then there’s the whole Ayn Rand thing…

I could also say Pro-Lifers under both “Most” and “Least.” I’m sympathetic to Lifers who respect all forms of life, but not to so-called Pro-Lifers who also support war and capital punishment and are against the very social programs that support the lives of those babies they want to be born.

51

Most: Abortion (I’m pro-choice, others have articulated my thoughts) and capital punishment (what Bricker said).

Least: Gay rights. I just don’t understand how anyone can refuse a law-abiding citizen the right to adopt children, getting married, serving in the military, etc. AFAICT, the only reason people are against gay rights is due to religion, which is not the basis of laws in the US.

Oh, and that reminds me, those 10 Commandments In Courthouses people as well. No sympathy for them.

52

Many of us big Ls are opposed to the existence of corporations in the first place. And the idea of a feudal state, which reeks heavily of straw to begin with, is still several cuts above a Brave New World.

53

I’m for gay marriage and the death penalty, simply because I haven’t heard a valid reason to be against them.

I’ll definitely never be with the “pro-lifers” or anti-abortion group, which is the proper name for them. As much as I know I would never have an abortion, I would also never tell any other woman that ANYONE ELSE ON THE FREAKING PLANET has the right to make that decision for them. I can never understand the idea of a “pro-lifer” killing another human. And people who use the term “pro-abortion” are incredibly stupid and evil.

54

You haven’t heard a valid reason for being against the death penalty?

55

Well, what do you propose in Libertarian ideology would prevent such a thing?

56

That’s a mighty wide brush you have there. As someone who thinks of himself as pro-life, I have to confess I’ve never killed anyone. Do you mean I have to turn in my pro-life views, now? My opposition to abortion works out practically as a desire to educate people about the other choices for birth control, with a low-level desire to limit the D/X procedure on live fetus to those instances where it is a matter of life or death for the mother. (Which, as a practical matter, means more education, while the procedure remains legal and allowed - just not chosen to be used.) Even the Holy Grail of the anti-abortion movement - overturning Roe v. Wade - isn’t going to remove abortion as an option for those who want it. It may make it harder for some, but it’s not going to make abortion illegal in all 50 states at the stroke of a pen. Education is the only way to end abortion. Honest, and complete, education.

57

I’m not talking about birth control and other options. Yes, I am definitely for them, but I also believe that only a pregnant woman (who may have used birth control and who knows the other options) should decide if she wants an abortion.
And, like any other medical procedure, she should have the right to have it done by a qualified physician.

I’m only talking about the hard core anti-abortionists who do shoot and kill doctors and use the word “pro-abortion” about any who decides abortion should be an option.

I’ll be pro-choice until I hear about a pro-choice person killing a doctor who refuses to perform abortions.

58

No, there isn’t.

“They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism, because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. The anarchist is the scum of the intellectual world of the left, which has given them up. So the right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the Libertarian movement.” — Ayn Rand, FHF: “The Moratorium on Brains,” 1971

“I’d rather vote for Bob Hope, the Marx Brothers, or Jerry Lewis [than the Libertarians]. I don’t think they’re as funny as Professor Hospers and the Libertarian Party. If, at a time like this, John Hospers takes ten votes away from Nixon (which I doubt he’ll do), it would be a moral crime.” — Ayn Rand, FHF: “A Nation’s Unity,” 1972

“[The Libertarians] are not defenders of capitalism. They’re a group of publicity seekers who rush into politics prematurely, because they allegedly want to educate people through a political campaign, which can’t be done. Further, their leadership consists of men of every of persuasion, from religious conservatives to anarchists. Moreover, most of them are my enemies: they spend their time denouncing me, while plagiarizing my ideas.” — Ayn Rand, FHF: “Egalitarianism and Inflation,” 1974

“I’ve read nothing by a Libertarian (when I read them, in the early years) that wasn’t my ideas badly mishandled—i.e., had the teeth pulled out of them—with no credit given. I didn’t know whether I should be glad that no credit was given, or disgusted. I felt both. They are perhaps the worst political group today, because they can do the most harm to capitalism, by making it disreputable.” — Ayn Rand, “Objective Communication,” Lecture 1, 1980

“Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality.” — Ayn Rand, “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981

“Finally, the Libertarians aren’t worthy of being the means to any end, let alone the end of spreading Objectivism.” — Ayn Rand, Ibid. 1981

59

Enforcement of noncoerion.

60

Please explain.