Oprah Winfrey - Eat Me

The BBQ Pit
121

Well, since I was the one who mentioned the elitist tones, I imagine this comment is directed to me. Let me explain.

I don’t care if you like Oprah. I don’t particulary like her show, I’ve never opened her magazine and I’ve never read a book from her club. Any person’s like or dislike of Oprah was never the point of any of my posts. There’s nothing inherently snobby or elitist about not liking Oprah.

What I posted about was your unqualified condemnation of all people who base a decision, even in part, on Oprah’s Book Club. It was condescending and, when coupled with you plea for the unwashed to read the classics and make their own decisions, came across as elitist. Threads about reading on this board often take a pretentious and elitist tone and it gets annoying. If you don’t believe me look at this thread. Other posters came on to mock “housewives” and those who don’t read what they consider to be “acceptable” books. You subsequently explained that you don’t mean to be elitist and that’s cool with me. But can you understand how ranting that housewives are brainwashed by Oprah and should be out reading classics or browsing like you tends to sound a bit elitist?

This is a public message board. When you post something, others are free to respond. I’m sorry if you’re upset that people disagree with you. I don’t know if you were looking for affirmation or what. But you have to keep in mind that you can’t control the direction of every thread. You posted your opinion, others disagreed. This doesn’t make you a victim or warrant posts bemoaning that you’re being labeled a snob. It’s just the way it goes.

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I don’t give a fuck about being Miss Sunshine. I don’t care if everyone disagrees with me. What really gets me is the statements “that was mean of you to say” or “that was a little over the top” or “gosh, aren’t you over reacting?”

Well no shit, I’m over reacting. I over react to everything. But now, because it’s the all glorious Oprah, it’s not allowed.
jar

123

Now Stoid, I want you tell me with a straight face that if Rush Limbaugh said the same thing, you’d respond with “he’s not being a jerk, you’re just pissed that he’s telling the truth.”

124

Well if it’s any comfort, j, you haven’t stopped me from hating Oprah :smiley:

125

Hang on, let me finish making some notes her for my own future reference on pit threads:

scribbles:
Clits: Funny
Oprah: Not funny

Okay. Anyway, what I meant to say jar, was that I hope you saw that although I used the phrase over the top, I qualified it with a delightful: “jarbaby was delightfully over the top…”

126

This would have made an excellent GD topic.

127

ultress - are you talking about the relative humour content of Oprah and clits?

128

Fuck that jarbabyj. That’s a load of shit and you know it.

The implication that only books worth reading are classic books.

The people who don’t agree with you are the ones who didn’t appreciate your condensending tone when talking about “the unwashed masses.” The problem you have now is that it shocked you that anybody would disagree with you on any subject, because you are extremely popular around here, and have enjoyed a measure of success with your previous rants.
I don’t have anything against you, and like I said before, I don’t care if you don’t like Oprah, or if you were over the top. I didn’t appreciate the way you talked about “mindless housewives”, I didn’t appreciate the condensending attitude you had, and I didn’t appreciate your many implications that the only books worth reading are classical books, and your passive-aggressive, “I’m wrong and I suck you are all right” certainly didn’t make me think more of you.

And even now you refuse to see why most people are arguing with you. You would rather accuse us all of blindly following Oprah, being part of her mindless cult, instead of allowing that the problem here is your attitude, and not because you were “dramatic” in the OP.
Quite frankly, if you can’t understand which part of your attitude is bothering people after I, Zoff, Nacho4Sara, CrankyAsAnOldMan, Ultress (to name a few) have pointed it out, then either you are ignoring our posts or simply not reading them carefully.

So, **All together now ** :
We don’t care if you have a problem with Oprah. We do care if you are going to be an elitist, condensending, prick when it comes to books and the people who choose (for whatever reason) to read those books.
Believe it or not, it’s a big deal to some of us. Books are extremely important to me, and yes, I will become annoyed when someone starts spouting off about “proven literature” and “classic literature” and anybody who reads should have “a great love of reading”. I don’t care if you do read Archie Comics, the fact is, you were still judging those women based on what they read and why. And don’t say, “That’s part of my dramatic OP” because you continued to do that long after you let Oprah fall by the wayside.
“The proven literature” comment alone is enough to make me angry without everything else you said.

129

OK. I get it now.

I’m sorry I made the comment about housewives. I’m sorry I sounded condescending in the OP. I realize that it came off as elitist. i was on a roll and never stopped. I could have just said I, myself, jarbaby, don’t care for the book club, but I pushed my luck and went on.

I’m sorry that I implied that only the books I read were acceptable, that was not my intent. The books I read probably AREN’T acceptable, seeing as a lot of them come from a BDSM publisher in New York.

I like classics, and I’m sad that more people don’t. That’s a subject for another time.

I do honestly apologize for doing that, it was out of line. It was insulting to women and housewives and book club members rather than Oprah herself.

I’m sorry.

jar

130

{Rock on, PLG.)

That’s the biggest load of shit I’ve ever read on this Board. I went through and read this whole damn thread again for the past hour, because admittedly I skimmed it a little the first time. You know what I see? I see you making an extremely dramatic proclamation (Look! I read Oprah’s books AND I used a big word!) that some people don’t agree with. Now maybe you thought you statements about the Book Club would fall to the wayside of the glorious “Twat Clamp” comment, but that didn’t fly. So people disagree. Some people were mean, but most everyone else was pretty amicable. Some more people disagree. You continue to slam home the point that the great unwashed masses incapable of reading a serious piece of literature are all Oprah drones who would assassinate the president if Oprah told them to.

As soon as you realized people were disagreeing with you on a bigger scale, you turn tail and start all this melodramatic “Fine, no one likes me here, wah, I concede.” No apology for insulting millions of readers. No change of heart. You just weren’t getting the lavish attention you are accustomed to so you threw a hissy fit. Then you get all “poor me, I’m so attacked, wah!” and argue that you didn’t actually say what you said about forty-seven times on this page alone.

Listen, I know a drama queen when I see one. I’m a reformed drama queen and I’ve pulled all that shit before, both here and in real life. Just cut the bullshit and stop acting like a three-year-old who isn’t getting her way.

Maybe I should bold this so y’all read it. I occasionally watch Oprah. I read the books she suggests. I do not wear velour track suits. I will take anyone who suggests that my reading superiority is somehow less than theirs because I’ve read Oprah’s book suggestions to the mat. And I’ll say that I think the books you listed (Les Mis, ToTC, The Jungle) aren’t even that superior. I read the first two in eighth grade and the third in ninth. Now tell me you read Anna Karenina, Moll Flaunders, David Copperfield, Tom Jones, or Oroonoko, the Royal Slave, and I will resign that statement. But I don’t think having read ToTC (which was taught to me in an eighth grade public school English class) is all that much to brag about.

Stoid - I don’t care how much money she has. I just think she’s arrogant. You know what else I think is arrogant? When she cuts off Dr. Phil to make her own point. She does that an awful lot. I just don’t like her.

I swear, I am always shocked at what new group people think they can target. “Attack the sweatpant-wearing, KMart shopping housewives next! They’re barely literate!” Give me a fucking break.

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So what I’m wondering Nacho…is this…

How many fucking times do I have to apologize? I just said I’m sorry for saying that. I’m sorry for making the housewives comment for chrissake.

I’m sorry for taking my dislike of Oprah out on people OTHER than Oprah. I mean it.

I know it’s not common in the Pit, but I’m admitting I was wrong. I was low, it was mean, it was taking potshots at people who are innocent passersby.

I’m sorry. Again. I used bad judgement.
jar

132

Jarby, I’m guessing it was a simulpost. She didn’t see your last reply before hitting submit. Calm down.

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Well crap, does this mean the thread is over? We were having some good interaction going.

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Yup, my bad, I didn’t see the last post before I finished typing.

Now I have to tell my professor that I am late to class because I was defending Oprah Winfrey. How embarrassing. :slight_smile:

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Ugh, I’m sorry I used the word “housewives” too. I don’t mean to imply that all stay-at-home women loll around in velour jumpsuits and hair scrunchies watching daytime television and don’t read books unless Oprah tells them to…just that enough of them do to have created a rather visible national media phenomenon.

I wouldn’t wish to take her show off the air, or to take away any money or success that she has earned. My roommate TAPES the show on days she can’t watch it (and god forbid if you tape ER over one of Oprah’s shows), so I’ve absorbed a good bit of it just by living in the house the past few months, and I have this to say:

Oprah and Dr. Phil, in their roles as amateur shrinks and “counselors”, spout the most preachy, self-helpy, ripped off from every 12-step program, and fucking OBVIOUS advice under the sun. Late all the time? Stop being late! Thinking of cheating on your spouse? Don’t cheat on your spouse. Still angry at stuff your parents did to you when you were small? Well, stop blaming them and stop blaming yourself and move the fuck on. If people find entertainment or comfort or inspiration from the show, so be it. But why don’t these guests get some fucking professional help instead of turning to talk show hosts for absolution? Every reputable psychologist or even advice columnist would say “Look, get some professional counseling, this isn’t the forum for us to really help you heal whatever it is.” Not “buy my book or bare your pain on my television show.”

The suggestion that it’s a cult is an exaggeration, but I have seen the level of emotional reactions some people around me have to her show. Many of her fans have a slavish devotion to her, believe everything she says, like everything that she approves of and dislike every thing that she disapproves of, pays attention to anything she tells them to do, ignore anything that she ignores, quote her and Dr. Phil at every opportunity, buy every book she recommends or that her guests come on the show to flog, tape her shows and watch them over and over…there is this sort of “Oprah As A Way of Life” thing that I do find irritating and creepy. Have you SEEN the way some of her guests and viewers go on about her? It’s like they’ve just had a divine experience. Um, people, she’s a TALK SHOW HOST.

Nacho4Sarah, I liked your post. I certainly don’t think less of people who read books from the Oprah Book Club, although I do confess a little old-fashioned snobbery towards people who ONLY read Oprah-sanctioned books because Oprah recommended them. And the Poisonwood Bible ROCKS, I’d recommend it to anyone and everyone - and I too discovered it long before Oprah did. I have also recommended the Story of O to many friends, and throughout this thread have amused myself by picturing Oprah in the title role. I find people who talk about how much they love Oprah incessantly to be irritating and a little soft in the head. Call it my stern Yankee upbringing. I find the amount of local news coverage of her show and her doings to be disproportionate to her importance to the community - Ultress, you can have her.

Jarbabyj, don’t worry - once we complete the Oprah Class, we’ll be better people and stop asking her to “eat us.”

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Am I the only person in the world who thought “Poisonwood Bible” sucked?

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If only it were that simple. “Your alcoholism is ruining your life? Stop drinking! Your husband beats you? Leave him!” It sound so simple – how many people don’t already know this stuff? The obvious answer is “millions”. Unfortunately, some people need to be told to treat themselves better, deal with their emotional baggage, exercise and eat right, stop being a punching bag or doormat, etc. Some pay therapists to tell them this very basic stuff; others get this advice from Oprah. Whether someone learns about building self-esteem (for example) from a $150/session shrink or from Dr. Phil isn’t relevant to me – as the long as the lesson is learned.

Oprah and Dr. Phil may get under your skin but if you’re rolling your eyes saying, “Duh –everyone knows that!”, you probably aren’t the person they’re trying to reach. Oprah’s just a talk show host, but I don’t doubt that her program has changed the lives of some of her guests and viewers for the better.

138

Just to be clear, I wasn’t posting in defense of housewives. I’m not hypersensitive about identifying downtrodden groups in every post. My beef was with the line of reasoning that said that people who read books from the Oprah Book Club:[ul]
[li] Never read anything else;[/li][li] are incapable of making their own decisions; and[/li][li] are too stupid to read “real” literature. [/ul][/li]
That’s a gross oversimplification. The book club is not a cult activity rendering it’s participants mindless and without internal control. It’s a form of arrogance to say that people who read a book that SDMBers don’t like are simply not smart enough to enjoy what the stunningly brilliant members of the SDMB read. I see a fair amount of that attitude on this board. When the subject of reading comes up, many posters use it as a platform to show how intelligent they are (“I have 4,000,000 books and I translate them into hieroglyphics. That’s the only way to appreciate the essence of the work.”) I have no problem with people getting excited about reading, but some use it as a status symbol. Again, I understand now that jarbabyj really didn’t mean that, but it looked that way for a while.

So, it’s not an attack on housewives that got me going. It’s the attitude that if a person reads a certain type of book they are idiots whose tastes are not legitimate. The housewife comments were a shorthand for this kind of attitude.

139

In this thread, Jodi asks what everyone is reading and makes a somewhat disdainful (in my opinion) comment about the Oprah books (she said, quote: “…suggestions from the DoperReaders, who we all know have far more discerning tastes than Oprah”)
No offense to Jodi, and I’m not picking on her, but I have a question for jarbabyj and for those who refuse to read Oprah’s books.
Why do you not want to read them?
Why is there such a backlash against her suggestions?
Why do people think the books she chooses are lightweight fluff with no redeeming value? I know there are some people who think all the books on her list are happily-ever-after romance-type books, which they are not.

Have any of you ever read one of the books from her list? If not, why not? No offense, but it does smack of intellectual snobbery when you dismiss a whole group of books, just because you dislike the person who suggested them.

And Rosie O’Donnell…I can’t stand her, but when she recommended The Bean Trees on her show, it had sales through the roof like an Oprah book. It’s by Barbara Kingsolver, who also wrote The Poisonwood Bible. She (Rosie) wasn’t trying to start a book club; she just really liked the book and was suggesting that people read it.

140

Kinsey, like I said, I’m not trying to be a snob at all. My taste in books is extremely limited and very selective, with exception of classics that I read so I can use their allusions in my writing.

I like very modern books, very quick, raw books, and I like erotica. Almost (and I stress the almost) never am I attracted to ‘women’s fiction’. I do not like books about deep feelign relationships. I do not like books about ‘coming to grips with death’, I do not like books about ‘learning to love yourself’, generally I do not like books ABOUT Women beating the system (erin brockovich crap).

Mall, by Eric Bogosian is one of my faves, and it’s about a bunch of whacked out people who all happen to be at a mall when a crazed murder decides to burn the place down. It has everything I like, sex, drugs, violence, swearing, scariness. American Psycho, Less Than Zero, The Marketplace trilogy by Laura Antonoiu (sp?), The Secret History, The Kommandant’s Mistress, The Collector. Sex, violence, debauchery and darkness. These are my favorite books.

I know my taste is odd, and that’s why Oprah’s books would never appeal to me. Me personally. Again, I’m sorry if my OP offended any Oprah readers.

jar