Oprah Winfrey - Eat Me

[Cat_Whisperer]

**

Originally posted by featherlou
(Zoff, I’ll let jarbaby speak for herself, which she has done admirably and at length.)

Originally posted by Zoff
I don’t know what you’re talking about. jarbabyj has spoken for herself and I’m cool with it. What are you talking about?

You addressed my first post earlier in the thread, and I was answering your post.

Originally posted by featherlou
I would rather have an Oprah than a Hitler, too, but what is the difference between the two? Hitler used his power to achieve his own ends; Oprah does the same.

Originally posted by ZoffI’d think you were joking, but it appears from the context of your comments that you’re serious.

I am serious, but I am also being mis-quoted here - you have cut part of what I said with the apparent intention to mislead. What I said was:
“Hitler used his power to achieve his own ends; Oprah does the same. Oprah has what she considers beneficial ends, but it still makes me uncomfortable for one very fallible human to have this level of control.”
I think it makes a difference when you include my entire thought in your quote.

Originally posted by featherlou
I see what you’re saying, Cranky, but this thread itself is kind of a rebuttal of your opinion; the way this thread very quickly induced strongly polarized replies to this thread indicate that people feel very strongly one way or another about Oprah.

Originally posted by Zoff
Some people do have strong feelings. On the other hand, several posters (including me) have made it very clear that we don’t give two shits about Oprah. The issue is whether it’s appropriate to stereotype people who read books from the Oprah Book Club. Even jarbabyj realizes her comments could have been read to be condescending. This simply isn’t the anti- Oprah vs. pro-Oprah thread you are making it out to be. **

I understood the OP to be about Oprah, not simply her choices for her Book Club. Posters have concentrated on that aspect of this debate, but I did not choose to, since I consider it a dead issue (as I addressed in my first post here).

[techchick68]

3. My girlfriend does PR work for the American Beef Association. How has Winfrey’s empire been devoted to making her life better?

OMG, that’s a stretch. I remember that whole beef thing, I am surprised that the people of the Broccoli Growers Association (if there is such a one) didn’t sue Fmr. Pres Bush for his comments on hating broccoli.

So who gives a shit if Ms. Winfrey hates beef. I like, my best friend likes it as do a great many. It’s a fucking free society, Ms. Winfrey and any other celeb (same with Rosie) can state how they feel about anything. Does it have backlash? Sure, just like the opinions on our little message board have concequences here. (I still watch Rosie but HATE her stance on gun control.)

Winfrey doesn’t need to help your girlfriend, she focuses on helping communities of people not one little woman in a PR job. If your girlfriend were in need of some kind of assistance than I am sure one of the orgs listed would help her. For a list of those charitable organizations that she has had on her show: Oprah’s Angel Network

< insert very large rolling eyes emoticon here >

[techchick68]

I have to add that I think a lot of the disdain people have for people like Oprah, Bill Gates, Rosie O’Donnell, Steve Case, etc…is due to some sense of hating the idea that a private citizen can become an icon and get fucking, unbelievably rich.

It strikes me that way because I don’t see these people doing bad, I may not agree with the person on every issue but they aren’t BAD people, they are people with some vision and a sense that accomplishment is more important than what most of us do. Most of us sit in a cube or work in fast food or whatever and barely make ends meet. So we hate that which we desire for our selves?

We don’t poopoo large sports icons though, we relish in their athletic ability but they do nothing but entertain us. People like Gates (the big one eyed evil monster behind the Microsoft empire) is looked upon as an arrogant asshole because his products have become the standard by which most run a computer. Does he have his faults? Well sure. But he created an empire that has created a lot of jobs for those (like me) who would otherwise be stuck in unfullfilling work.

Steve Case brought to us America On Line. He’s such an aweful person because he helped make the internet come to homes all over the world. It’s not a perfect delivery but not everyone has the ability to understand the internet, it scares the hell out of them but AOL made an easy interface that has brought the internet to homes of the young and old alike.

Rosie O’Donnell, well, I can’t stand her position on guns, in fact I loathe her opinions on that however she has brought adoption to many a homes and has helped a great deal in putting the idea that adoption is good not a dirty secret in the face of millions of people every day. She works strongly with breast cancer issues and has helped many women learn that a mammogram is not a scary thing. She does this with a joke or a laugh and it comes to people.

Winfrey has created a sub culture of women that want to be empowered. Women who want to come to grips with more than materialistic things while wanting to enjoy the finer things in life. She has created a generation of women who would otherwise read the Sunday comics and that’s it. She presents a way of life in her way, which isn’t that bad. You don’t become as wealthy or as important to so many people by being a schlep. She does know where she came from, she is proud of herself and I don’t blame her.

I guess I get a little ticked when I see people put down a wealthy, self-made person being put down because of their brain power to make it so. We rarely see that with sports icons. Kinda makes me think that people have some twisted priorities.

She’s not the arrogant person in this, it’s the person that can only see the outword things. I don’t live in Chicago so I don’t see the promotion of her at all I only view it from my own perspective.

[Stoid]

*Originally posted by Sublight *
**

…whose entire empire is devoted to making life a little better for everyone…

3. My girlfriend does PR work for the American Beef Association. How has Winfrey’s empire been devoted to making her life better? **

Fine…making life better for those who choose to participate.

[Stoid]

Originally posted by Sublight *
**
2. I did not compare her to Falwell or Asahara, I compared you to their followers. We obviously differ on this, but I cannot conceive of my view of anything so complex as another human as being a statement of fact. I see nothing in your assessment of Winfrey to indicate that you realize it’s just your opinion, to which others may disagree without “hating her”.*

Oh, and if you wanna get into dissecting this fact vs. opinion biz, I suggest my GD thread. But we can start by analyzing behavior as fact, can’t we? Whatever her private motivations may be, her ** behavior ** is visible. It is not a matter of “opinion” as to whether her actions are good actions or bad actions, assuming we both agree that helping people is good, hurting them is bad, yes?

You are entitled to your opinion of her in terms of whether you like her or not, whether you find her believable or not, things of that nature. But what she does is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.

stoid

[Sapphire_Bullet]

*Originally posted by techchick68 *
So who gives a shit if Ms. Winfrey hates beef. I like, my best friend likes it as do a great many. It’s a fucking free society, Ms. Winfrey and any other celeb (same with Rosie) can state how they feel about anything.

Actually, IIRC, the problem the Beef Association had wasn’t that Oprah said she didn’t like beef. Of course she is allowed to do that. It was that they felt she implied beef wasn’t safe to eat. As a public figure who is trusted by milllions of people, the beef folks thought she was acting irresponsibly.

[The_Man_Who]

Boy, some of you can check “Tear New Asshole” off your things to do list. Yipes.

Couple of things to remember about jarbabyj and her Oprah Observations:

1. She’s in Chicago, and thus she’s actually a member of a secret underground cabal. Granted, it’s an S-and-M bondage club, but there’s also one for people who don’t like Winfrey. From what I know the zeitgeist around Lake Michigan is that Oprah is near-deity, and Otheists will not be tolerated.

2. Nothing in what she’s said about Oprah’s Book Club is anything new. This article says basically the same things she did in the OP. Taste in books is a nebulous thing; if “A” thinks “B’s” books suck, are stupid, or do not prove anything toward their readers’ literacy, it doesn’t make “A” a fascist. Hell, I avoided Poisonwood Bible because Christianity Today gave it a bad review. The wife liked it, though, so I’ll probably give it another chance.

3. As far as Oprah helping people out goes, making them feel good, and their actually being good are two different things, and require different levels of commitment. See Neil Steinberg’s essay “O is for Oprah” in his book “The Alphabet of Modern Annoyances.”

4. Second guessing someone’s apology is just not nice. Didn’t you see that ultraneohippydame who got voted of Survivor this week? “Play Nice.”

5. Give jarbabyj a break, she loves Anne Gedes, so she can’t be completely evil, can she?

6. And finally, since the Chicago Bears are somehow not sucking this year, Chicagoans have to find someone else to pick on, and Oprah is as good a target as any.

-Myron
At least my Vikes have the good sense to suck right from the start, so I don’t waste any time rooting for them.

[Sublight]

first techchick68:
The problems of using sarcasm in a written message. I was addressing Stoid’s statement that Winfrey’s “empire” is devoted to helping everyone. She amended her statement, and I accept it in its new form. Oprah does not owe my girlfriend anything, and other than the $5 she borrowed from me in '82 and never paid back, she owes me nothing.

Now Stoid:

Whatever her private motivations may be, her behavior is visible. It is not a matter of “opinion” as to whether her actions are good actions or bad actions,

Yes it is. “Person A does X” is a statement of fact (whether that fact is accurate or not is a separate issue). “X is good, Y is bad” is an opinion, and open to debate.

assuming we both agree that helping people is good, hurting them is bad, yes?

No. Aside from the wide middle ground you’re leaving out, I can think of some everyday situations in which helping someone is not good.

And if anyone can show me where I’ve said that I hate, dislike, or get willies from Ms. Winfrey, I would appreciate it. I posted because I took exception with Stoid’s line of reasoning, not with Oprah’s book club.

[Sublight]

*Originally posted by Stoid *
Oh, and if you wanna get into dissecting this fact vs. opinion biz, I suggest my GD thread.

If this is the thread you mean, then I don’t see much to change my mind about. In both that thread and this one, you state your opinions, then treat them as though they were facts.

[Zoff]

I am serious, but I am also being mis-quoted here - you have cut part of what I said with the apparent intention to mislead. What I said was: “Hitler used his power to achieve his own ends; Oprah does the same. Oprah has what she considers beneficial ends, but it still makes me uncomfortable for one very fallible human to have this level of control.” I think it makes a difference when you include my entire thought in your quote.

Personally, I don’t think the rest of your quote helps your case any, so I left it out in my initial quote. If you want the rest included, that’s fine by me. Let’s look at your comparison.

First of all, the fact that Oprah uses her “power” to achieve her own ends is irrelevant. Any power that you or I gain is generally used for our own ends. Sure, if you become famous you’ll probably kick some money to charity, but the bulk of your “power” will be used for your own benefit and there’s nothing wrong with that. As Adam Smith noted, we don’t rely on the charity of the butcher, the brewer, and the baker for our meals. They do what they do for their own ends, yet it also benefits us. So, the fact that Oprah uses some of her power for her benefit makes her just like everybody else.

So, that leaves us with the issue of the substance of the Oprah vs. Hitler comparison. I’m just going to run through a few differences real quick:
Goals [ul]
[li]Hitler: Military conquest of the world ushering in 1,000 years of Aryan rule. Oprah: Better ratings than Maury.[/li][li]Hitler: Extermination of all non-Aryan people. Oprah: A successful book club.[/li][/ul]

Power[ul]
[li]Hitler was dictator of an industrialized nation. Oprah owns a magazine and a production company.[/li][li]Hitler commanded a modern army with millions of men. Oprah’s Harpo Productions employs considerably fewer, none of whom appears capable of employing blitzkrieg tactics.[/li][/ul]

Your comparison of Oprah’s power and goals to those of Hitler’s are ridiculous. If Oprah went on the air and called for the surrender of Paris it wouldn’t happen. On the other hand, Hitler had a little thing called an invading army to help him. So the power disparity is pretty obvious. Just as obvious as the difference in their goals.

That’s fine if you don’t like Oprah. But you’ve managed to compare her to both a cult leader and one of the most evil humans to ever live. Oprah seems ot have more power over you than she does over those who watch her show.

[Stoid]

*Originally posted by Zoff *
**
That’s fine if you don’t like Oprah. But you’ve managed to compare her to both a cult leader and one of the most evil humans to ever live. Oprah seems ot have more power over you than she does over those who watch her show. **

Excellent post, Zoff.

And let us never forget that Oprah’s “power” is merely that she is * respected and trusted * by so many people, they will give her their attention, and consider ideas and people she introduces them to, on the strength of her introduction. Period. They are always free to reject her ideas and people. And when those ideas, people (and books) stop being found to be rewarding, she will stop having that power.

stoid

[tiny_ham]

She’s also so well loved and respected that she requires every single one of her employees to sign a confidentiality agreement lest they dare say anything bad about her later. The agreement says they will not speak about Oprah outside of work: FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, and was stemmed from a former employee who wanted to write a book about her.

[here’s another article about how great and well loved Oprah is, with my favorite quote:

The dispute between Harpo and the former employee who wanted to write a book about Winfrey underscores a glaring contradiction with the celebrity’s desire to reap the rewards of free speech only when it suits her own personal and professional purposes.

and here’s a working black woman’s opinion of Oprah from [url=“http://www.yforum.com/race471.html”]this](http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/20000429/A30583-2000Apr28.html) website::

I will be frank: My opinion is that Oprah is a very powerful, wealthy and informed woman, but that she’s not a status symbol to the majority of black women. What I mean by majority is this: Black women who receive an annual income of $20,000 or less, lower-class black families, etc. Oprah speaks about things that people of that criteria cannot identify with. What does a poorer person actually know about being a “shopaholic” or a “compulsive overspender”? Nothing. Maybe if Oprah would broaden her audience range, she would receive more support from “the average” black woman such as myself. Just take a look at the audience. You see nothing but rich or “damn-near” rich white women. And that’s who she will continue to cater to. And the book club, please! I and other women such as myself have other things to do with our time, like making sure our kids are safe every day and getting up to catch the bus to work every day.
POSTED OCT. 12, 1998
A. Bailey, 20, working , black mom, Bridgeport, CT

bolding mine, lest you think I’m alone in my dislike of Chicago’s Richest Ice Queen

I’ve retracted my statements that were critical of the book club and ended up hurting people’s feelings. It was cold and mean of me to do. But I just wanted to emphasize for those who have emailed and posted that I gave up too easily:

it’s November 5th, 2001, and I still hate Oprah.

My mother called me last night and said this (which I audibly sighed at), “Oprah made a salad last week that she said Arnold Schwarzenegger loves, but I didn’t really like the dressing. I’m going to have to try it again though, because Oprah said it’s supposed to be great”

OPRAH SAID!

jar

[grayhairedmomma]

and here’s a working black woman’s opinion of Oprah from this website::
quote:

I will be frank: My opinion is that Oprah is a very powerful, wealthy and informed woman, but that she’s not a status symbol to the majority of black women.

And? So because she’s a black woman that’s the only demographic she is allowed to identify with?

What I mean by majority is this: Black women who receive an annual income of $20,000 or less, lower-class black families, etc. Oprah speaks about things that people of that criteria cannot identify with.

Oprah does not speak only about money and how much she can buy and all that jazz. I would venture that low income black women do identify with many of the person-to-person relationship, spiritual and self-respect issues that Oprah presents in her forum.

What does a poorer person actually know about being a “shopaholic” or a “compulsive overspender”? Nothing.

"Shopaholics and “compulsive spenders” are not found only among the well-to-do. Every day I see women who are poor that spend too much money on unnecessary items instead of paying their bills.

Maybe if Oprah would broaden her audience range, she would receive more support from “the average” black woman such as myself. Just take a look at the audience. You see nothing but rich or “damn-near” rich white women. And that’s who she will continue to cater to. And the book club, please! I and other women such as myself have other things to do with our time, like making sure our kids are safe every day and getting up to catch the bus to work every day.

Maybe Oprah doesn’t want to be supported by narrow-minded divisionists like this woman? Maybe this idiot can’t see that she needs to spend time reading a (gasp!) book to try and help herself and her child(ren) into a more enlightened and well-rounded existence.

My mother called me last night and said this (which I audibly sighed at), “Oprah made a salad last week that she said Arnold Schwarzenegger loves, but I didn’t really like the dressing. I’m going to have to try it again though, because Oprah said it’s supposed to be great”

OPRAH SAID!

How is it Oprah’s fault that your mother is blindly following her suggestions? As has been stated before in this thread - Oprah has no power to force people to do anything, all she can do is talk and live her life the way she sees fit.

[Cat_Whisperer]

Okay, I’ll admit that Oprah probably doesn’t have world domination in mind, but she does have what seems to me to be an out-of-proportion amount of power over people like jarbaby’s mom. Why is she (and so many people like her) listening to what Oprah says over her own feelings and taste? This makes me uncomfortable, and I don’t seem to be able to explain why very well.

[Nacho4Sara]

Black women who receive an annual income of $20,000 or less, lower-class black families, etc. Oprah speaks about things that people of that criteria cannot identify with. What does a poorer person actually know about being a “shopaholic” or a “compulsive overspender”? Nothing. Maybe if Oprah would broaden her audience range, she would receive more support from “the average” black woman such as myself. Just take a look at the audience. You see nothing but rich or “damn-near” rich white women. And that’s who she will continue to cater to. And the book club, please! I and other women such as myself have other things to do with our time, like making sure our kids are safe every day and getting up to catch the bus to work every day.
POSTED OCT. 12, 1998
A. Bailey, 20, working , black mom, Bridgeport, CT

I really don’t understand what this article has to do with your argument. Who cares who her demographic is? Does it have to be black because she is black? Are only black people allowed to be in the audience? For the love of pete! And the last sentence of this article is the biggest piece of bullshit I’ve ever read in my life. My family was extremely poor until I was 12 and my mother found time to read every day. She read to me before bed for the first ten years of my life, and yet she still took a goddamn bus to work every day until we moved to the county and she bought her first car.

This whole thread is simply a moot point. You don’t like her, you don’t like the power she has over your mother, so you make her out to be some sort of totalitarian Ice Bitch. So you basically accuse everyone who likes her of being barely literate with no taste in books and paint them as some sort of stupid blind sheep. Maybe your mom is like that, but don’t generalize every viewer of her show based on your limited experiance. I have never in my entire life, even living in Baltimore where Oprah has a bit of renown, heard anyone ever say what your mom said.

And how is she different from Richard Gere using his celebrity to attract attention to the plight of Tibetans? Or Jane Fonda protesting Vietnam? Or Sharon Stone representing AMFAR? Oprah clearly cared about people reading, so she started a Book Club. How is this different from Gisele using her celebrity to sell bras, or Whoopi selling Entemann’s? Oprah likes a certain kind of salad dressing, so she hocks it on her show. Who cares?

It seems to me that you are blowing her out of proportion and assigning all this power to her that I don’t know exists. So people buy books or salad dressings she recommends? People buy bras Gisele wears and Pepsi because Britney drinks it. Oprah is no different from these celebrities in using her fame for good (the whole Change Your Life theme) like Richard Gere or for profit like Britney.

Give the woman a break. I mean, I surely don’t think she’s perfect, but I doubt she is the worldwide dominatrix you give her credit for.

God, and I don’t even like her that much!

[Jodi]

[wading in]

Green Bean, if you’re putting off reading The Book of Ruth because you’re afraid it’s a downer, your psychic powers are spot on. If you’re not interested in depression, put it down and back away slowly. My God what a bleak book!

Y’all may now resume your regularly scheduled thread “Oprah: Satan Personified or the Second Coming Of Christ?” I’d only gently suggest that you consider that those are not the only two options.

[/wading back out]

[Shirley_Ujest]

I haven’t read all the posts here, but **Cranky’s ** response was pretty much what I agree with.

I don’t really watch Oprah.Possibly two or three shows a year, maybe. Never was into talk shows. But out of the quagmire of talk shows, hers is the one talk show I would want watch if I was trapped on a desert island.

I haven’t read any of the books on her book club list but from the interviews and articles about this Book Club, it has been a marketing phenom to generate a sagging, sagging industry. The books that I’ve looked at that are on that list look too depressing or just, well, dull, for me.

(You would be very very very surprised on how many people out there do not read. It shocks me to my very core. Take away my books, magazines, THIS PLACE, and my world is gone.)

Not that I am High Art. Hell. I’m not even Sober Art.

I read primarily romance novels, because, frankly, it is all my attention span allows for these days ( ok, ever. You mean there are other kinds of books out there?) That and shitloads of magazines.

One of which is Oprah’s. Which is simply the best woman’s magazine out there that I’ve seen. Sure there are parts in there that I skip, but page for page, it is the best read I’ve discovered.

The self help Q&A sections ( Suzi Orman & Dr. Phil) are outstanding. I wish I’d known about these two when I was floundering in my teens, 20’s and last week, yesterday :), I like Dr. Phil’s shoot from the hip approach, because that is how I am. I hate schmaltzy touchy-feely crapola. Every month when this magazine comes in, there is always an article that really hits home with me. [high on voice] It’s like they are reading my mind, man. [/high on voice]

I like Suzi Orman’s approach that a woman has to be responsible for her financial future. DO you know how many women my age can’t pay a bill, balance a check book or figure out a budget? And stay within a budget? It SICKENS ME. men are not born with some kind of magical Money Management Gene. It has to be learned.

You won’t see a “Thin Thighs in 20 minutes” on the cover of her magazine. I like that.

Sidebar.

If I told you to read the Kommandant’s Mistress by Sheri Szesman…would my mom read it?

What you have here is a classic case of what I call "Daughter Invisible".

My mother calls me up one day in May to tell me her furnace is out and asks for my husband because it is making a clicking noise. I tell her that a) the house is not going to blow up because the clicking noise is the safety mechanism trying to reset itself and b) the safety mechanism probably went out because of a power outage that was only a few moments and C) NO GAS was leaking -which was her main concern. And possibly d) the safety mechanism might need to be replaced.

She “uh-huh’s” me and asks in her frantic voice for my husband. I inform him what the problem is and what I’ve already told her (impressing him) and he goes on to say the exact same thing to her INSTANTLY PUTTING HER AT EASE. I could have eaten nails and glass at that moment I was so steamed. And the mechanism had to be replaced, so there.

And this works in reverse. I suggest something to my husband and I never get a response out of him. If I say this to my mother in law or sister in law and either of them says it to HIM and SUDDENLY IT IS THE GREATEST FUCKING IDEA THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.

I have decided I am nameless and invisible.

/sidebar
If Oprah bugs the living crap out of you, why do you torture yourself by watching her? So What if your mom likes her?
Maybe your mom has found a way to get back at you for playing that Whitesnake album 9000 times in a row when you were in high school.

[Stoid]

*Originally posted by featherlou *
**Okay, I’ll admit that Oprah probably doesn’t have world domination in mind, but she does have what seems to me to be an out-of-proportion amount of power over people like jarbaby’s mom. Why is she (and so many people like her) listening to what Oprah says over her own feelings and taste? This makes me uncomfortable, and I don’t seem to be able to explain why very well. **

I hope you understand that this has nothing to do with Oprah. Oprah doesn’t know jarbabyj’s mom. It seems to me the “problem”, if any exists, is with jbaby’s mother.

After all, if Oprah were somehow made aware of the situtation, what would be a reasonable expectation of her? That she end her show? Stop making recommendations? Stop praising and promoting what she believes in…just because jarbabyj’s mom has made the decision that if Oprah says it and she disagrees, the fault lies with her?

That makes no sense to me at all. If in fact that would be your position.

stoid

[tiny_ham]

*Originally posted by Nacho4Sara *

I really don’t understand what this article has to do with your argument. Who cares who her demographic is?

Because my point is Oprah tries to tell us how she identifies with all of us and thinks she’s one of us, and then in the next breath she’s telling us she makes salad for Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver and goes on a week long ski vacation in Aspen.

Maybe I’m wrong in thinking that it’s a lot of stay at home, unemployed, middle class moms watching this show (I assume that because it’s on at 9:00 am, when working women are working). But it seems that Oprah doesn’t mesh with who she’s trying to be.

She’s a name dropper and a snob, and she strikes me as phony. ME, jarbaby. That’s my opinion.

And I know that it’s my mom’s problem that she follows Oprah like Jesus Christ, but I also know that you can’t get peach colored roses unless you breed them that way. You think Oprah doesn’t know that she’s got an army following her? And that she builds on that by using the royal “we” and telling us what we “must have” for fall? Please.

jar

[grayhairedmomma]

Maybe I’m wrong in thinking that it’s a lot of stay at home, unemployed, middle class moms watching this show (I assume that because it’s on at 9:00 am, when working women are working). But it seems that Oprah doesn’t mesh with who she’s trying to be.

In my area the show airs at 4pm EST. Not everyone works from 8-5 Mon-Fri, jarbabyj. Why do you constantly portray her viewers as unintelligent, unproductive, brainwashed idiots?

My mother was a very intelligent woman who instilled in my brothers and me a deep love of learning and reading. The fact that we were low-income did nothing to stop that. She worked from 3pm - 11pm at night with Tuesdays and Wednesdays off during the week. On those days she would watch Oprah and when she couldn’t she would tape her show and watch it at night after work. There were things that Oprah did/talked about that Mom would roll her eyes at and there were things that touched her and caused her to reevaluate her opinions or perceptions.

Just as there are millions of people who enjoy Oprah and they choose to listen to her thoughts and opinions - there are billions more people who don’t.