Oriental -- round 2

[matt_mcl]

Yes, that’s kind of my point. You’re using it to refer to a specific, “Orientalist” aesthetic – not to an individual.

[roger_thornhill]

@roger thornhill

“Orientals” conjures up images of Charley Chan, Kato (Clouseau’s “little Oriental friend”) and slit eyes. Images of servility or stupidity, figures of fun or deceit.

@rjung

Then the problem isn’t with the word, it’s with the association. Change that, and the problem’s gone.

Over time, connotation (“association”) often becomes denotation. Dictionaries reflect this and the process is complete. For the time being.

[blowero]

@Evil Captor

You’re akin to the culture thugs who go after Huckleberry Finn because it has the word “nigger” in it a lot.

You’re so full of shit. When have I ever advocated censoring classic literature?

You’d like to trash something good for a bit of personal puffery, a feeling that you’re just a wee bit superior to those who use That Bad Word Nobody Should Ever Have Used Anyway.

No, I’m a LOT superior, because I’m not a self-important asshole who refuses to do others the unbelievably simple favor of not referring to them by a term that they consider outdated.

Now I know that some claim that the word “Oriental” isn’t even at issue, that so long as you don’t use it for people, it’s OK. And to me it is a word that doesn’t work so well to describe people.

So you don’t even want to use it to describe people; you only insist on doing so in order to piss people off. You’re even more petty than I imagined.

Not that it’s necessarily derogatory, it just has the wrong connotations.

No shit, Sherlock. Did you just figure that out? That’s why it’s unfavorable.

But I don’t believe you for a minute when you say you aren’t after the word itself. You really are attempting to change the meaning of the word Oriental by giving it that greasy racist tinge, and I don’t like that. Frex, the term “gay” still has a meaning of happy and cheerful, but it’s impossible to use it nowadays without referencing its other meaning relating to homosexuality. It’s been rurnt as a simple descriptor of good cheer.

Oh, boo fucking hoo! Poor, poor Evil Captor. He can’t use “gay” the way they did in the 1890s. Jesus Christ, could you get upset about a more trivial thing?

But “Asian” is no substitute for “Oriental” – it’s too prosaic, too flatly descriptive.

And this is the other thing I just don’t get. I’m just flabbergasted by people who say, “I will call you THIS name, despite your wishes, because I like it better.” I can scarcely imagine a more selfish attitute.

But I don’t expect you and the PC police to pick up on anything that subtle, because you don’t give a fuck, you just use language as a club, and with the dumb indifference to the connotations and associations that may attach to it that don’t relate to your intent of using it to smash some perceived social ill.

You strike me as an unbelievably anal-retentive, self-absorbed little person.

That is why I’m so happy to stick my thumb in your eyes. You’re a language thug. Fuck you.

Right back atcha, prick.

Whooo, that was fun.

[China_Guy]

Here’s the best thing I’ve ever found showing the origin of Asian American versus Oriental (in the US).
http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/features/issues/summer03/theforgottenrevolution.php

[Little_Plastic_Ninja]

Good frickin’ night, blowero, are you ever getting worked up.

The point isn’t that people are intending to offend, honestly. The word ‘Oriental’ brings a lot of images to my mind – of a lovely Japanese lady I knew when growing up, of her lilting accent and the candy wrapped in rice paper she gave me. Of ancient cultures filled with fascinating history. It brings up only positive and pleasing images to my mind, but apparently it’s offensive. That bothers me – ‘Asian’ is a very neutral word, descriptive only of a large continent. ‘Oriental’ is a word speaking more to culture than to physical region.

I don’t use the word because I don’t want to offend anyone, but it seems that a new word is deemed inappropriate every time I turn around. One day, a word is considered appropriate and respectful; tomorrow, it might be offensive and borderline hate speech. My grandmother still hasn’t figured out that ‘colored’ is no longer polite language, and she isn’t a racist – she just can’t keep up.

So some people take the position of “Fuck it. I’m not out to offend, but I’m not going to change my vocabulary yet again, and I’m not going to tiptoe around afraid of offending people with something they shouldn’t be offended by.” And when the easily offended see no problem in turning around and insulting me, it lessens my capacity for caring.

[TVeblen]

Zombie thread.

Closed.

[Frank]

Don’t you hate it when you think of a good, or maybe not so good joke, and read all the way through the thread to make sure no one has used it, and then realize the thread is a zombie?

I do.