Orthodox Jewish Sabbath

There’s nothing specifically Puritan, or even Protestant, about that.

The traditional Roman Catholic prohibition of labor on Sunday addressed itself largely to “servile” labor. It wouldn’t surprise me if this involved the avodah/eved connection.

Man, I missed this thread going on… Growing up one of my best friends was Jewish. I’m not sure what they were to start with, but when we were about 15 they moved about 20 miles from where we lived to be closer to a more conservative Jewish community to aid in them becoming Orthodox. I used to take the train and spend the Sabbath with them sometimes during summer and holidays. It was very interesting and in a lot of ways sparked my interest in religions. (I am proud to say that I can read and write classical Hebrew quite well after studying it for two years in college. Not that it is good for anything…:)) IIRC, my friend’s family did leave some lights on, but did have the masking tape over them so as not to accidentally turn them off/on. And I remember after temple having a large meal at home with her and her parents, and I think they just left the dishes on the table for the next day. I don’t remember what we ate, however, and if it had been kept in the refrigerator or not. I learned very much about Kosher foods, and how to handle things in a Kosher kitchen. They were very nice about answering my questions and humoring me, and while they were conservative they made it clear that I didn’t necessarily have to follow all of the rules, but I tried to out of respect. All in all, it was really a good experience to have that helped me learn about differences amongst people.

Unfortunately, I lost touch with my friend after a few years in college and I heard through some other people that she moved permanently to Israel. :frowning:

Hi, all! Nice to be back. Done with synagogue, dishes are washed, etc etc etc, no significant email, so here I am back at Straight Dope. For a while anyway.

I have no real disagreement with anything CKDex said about punishments. Not much doctrinal stuff that everyone agrees on, except that there IS reward and punishment. We can guess at which good deeds and which sins gets the really big rewards and the really big punishments, and most guesses might be right, but no one really knows for sure.

The Talmud does mention some specific good deeds as guarantees of a good reward in the Next World. It also mentions some specific sins as guarantees of no good reward in the Next World. So what happens if someone does both? This is why my feeling is that God judges every individual separately, knowing what each is capable of.

Regarding sex on the Sabbath: The technical reason that it is allowed is that it has no connection to any of the tabernacle-building activities, as others have already shown.

But that’s technicalities. The Jewish philosophers have indeed worked on trying to figure out some sort of common thread that connects all the technical prohobitions of the Sabbath, and they usually come up with something related to this idea of creative activity, as others have already posted.

CKDex offered some other non-prohibited creative activities. I noticed that all his examples were of intangible ideas. Some could argue that babies are not intangible ideas. One could even say that to make a human being is the very most creative thing that anyone could possibly do.

These thoughts led me, many years ago, to a different conclusion. Instead of using the word “creative”, let’s say that the acts which are forbidden on the Sabbath are ones which demonstrate humanity’s mastery over nature. Cooking food, making fire, weaving cloth - they make permanent effects to the world around us. Baby-making also is a major effect, but it is not part of humanity’s mastery over nature. It is part of humanity’s participation in nature. (Those are some of my current thoughts, subject to further revision at any time.)

I should think that most Jewish scholars would say God creates babies.

Yes, it is okay to teach on Shabbat. Just [del]sleep through[/del] listen to the rabbi’s sermon.

Regarding Keeve’s discussion on the permissibility of sex on Shabbat: A practical, real-world, and just a bit cynical point of view would be:

  1. The sages and rabbis, across the ages, made most of the rules.
  2. The sages and rabbis probably wanted to get laid.

Read the 16ish century Zohar for further discussion on point 2.

I’d just like to congratulate Doug of the SDSAB for debunking a brand new urban legend: Straight Dope scoop: The truth about the boy with "two spiders living in his ear.

And this is related to the Sabbath exactly how… :confused:

I think Dex meant to start a new thread :smiley:

Maybe you can’t dig in your ears on the Sabbath.

Sigh. Yes, I meant to start a new thread. Apologies all 'round.

Keeve, I felt guided by the fact that Rabbi Ribiat surrounds the word “eruv” in quotes on page 1294, and page 1312 seems to indicate that a surrounding of Tzuros HaPesach is not the same as an Eruv (although in retrospect, maybe all he meant was that technically the Eruv is the food and not the Tzuros HaPesach, but that they still need the food to have an effect). Also note the phrasing in paragraph 2 on page 1375 - it sounds as if he is specifically not using the word “eruv” for the city-wide arrangement. So while I was not certain what the precise basis for the city-wide Tzuros HaPesach was, it sounded to me like it operated under some different halachic construct than Eruv Chatzeros. But I could be wrong.

vedderhedd, Keeve already gave one perspective on the “making babies is not creative work” issue, I’d like to offer another. As Noone Special mentioned earlier, the Hebrew word for “angel” is “Malakh” - from the same word as Melakha. In traditional Jewish belief, angels are essentially celestial automatons - they exist in order to perform a very specific mission, and cannot deviate from their programmed purpose. Melakha, too, is focused toward a specific purpose - the purpose of planting a seed is to grow a plant, the purpose of shearing wool off a sheep is to have wool for cloth, the purpose of writing is to convey a meaningful concept in a permanent medium. However, what is the purpose of creating a human being? A person has self-will, and directs himself as he chooses to - not necessarily what his parents envisioned when conceiving him (if in fact they envisioned anything at all). On a more religious level (after all, Sabbath is a religious concept), one could say that the purpose of creating a human being is to serve G-d - a spiritual purpose - and spiritual creation isn’t forbidden on Sabbath, only physical creation is.

Just a possible perspective.

It being Saturday, I may not get an answer right away, but what is the consensus on electric sensors like those used to open doors. Is activating one by bodily presense considered closing a circuit even if there is no direct contact? What about sound activated devices? If it is considered as a form of work, would an orthodox Jew have to avoid situations where he would inadvertantly set off a sensor or is it okay for him to walk past a supermarket, even though his movement would cause the door to open, as long as it was not his intent to open to door?

I live in a neighborhood with a large population of orthodox Jews (I myself am an atheist, although I identify myself as a Jew)…anyway, I observed a family walking in the street during Shavuot, and the father admonished his sons to stay in the middle of the street (traffic is very light on Jewish holidays) to avoid setting off motion sensors.

Running With Scissors observed correctly, it is best to steer wide of motion sensors if you know that they’re around.

I agree that this is a most interesting topic,and kudos to CMKeller…good work.

In a previous post (and this thread has become far too large to go back and look for it) I read that the laws were suspended for safety or health’s sake. Would I be correct in assuming then that nursing duties are permissible, whether or not they require “work” as defined above? For example, if caring for a child, or a sick or disabled person, may water be heated? Instruments sterilized? Do observant physicians and nurses carry on with their duties as usual, or remain at home in observance of Shabat? Suppose that Dr. X, an imminent cardiologist and observant Jew, is needed on the Sabbath…does she answer her page? Finally, does a parent carrying a child violate the carrying ban? If walking to Temple and so on, I cannot see how a child would accompany the family, unless carried. This has been a very informative thread, and I don’t mind waiting for an answer until after the holiday.

A pious Jew in the medical profession would arrange their shift so that they are not scheduled for duty on Shabbat. Given that, once they become involved in a situation where medical care is necessary, all Shabbat restrictions are lifted as needed.

[Suppose that Dr. X, an imminent cardiologist and observant Jew]
Oops! Obviously, that should have been eminent…stupid spell check!

goddessodd:

Only if there is the probability of danger to life or health by not doing these things on Sabbath. If this is an ongoing care situation, there are certainly ways to have boiled water on hand without having to boil it on Sabbath itself. I don’t think sterilizing an instrument is itself a form of “melakha.”

As Scuba_Ben said, an observant Jew in the medical profession would arrange his schedule to not perform duties that could be done by others (such as maintaining office hours or doing routine hospital rounds) on Sabbath. However, they are allowed to answer pagers for emergencies.

Correct indeed. There is no obligation to bring young children to Temple services; the prohibition of carrying on Sabbath (where there is no Eruv) means that such children should stay home. If the whole family can’t go to Temple, so be it - Temple is a preferred mode of prayer, but prayer can be done individually as well, if other factors (like little children who can’t be carried on Sabbath) make that necessary.

I have found this topic fascinating, but I wonder how observant Jews keep up with it all. I suppose a lifetime of practice helps, but even so, it seems that there is a great deal of esoteric knowledge that must be retained (and retention is my biggest problem, especially as I grow older). I would need someone to help me remember that a routine activity, say, picking up and carrying a small child, pushing an elevator button, popping something in the microwave, is forbidden on this particular day. How do you remember it all, especially the semi-automatic things?

Well, being raised with it certainly helps. And being raised Orthodox Jewish usually means going to a yeshiva for one’s school years, which means that every morning for twelve years is dedicated to religious studies, plus independent religious study is highly encouraged as well, and practical day-to-day halacha is a very big part of it.

Nonetheless, the body of law is vast, and it’s certainly not a rarity for situations to come up where one’s knowledge turns out to be deficient. Fortuately, there are many resources for looking things up, and many Rabbis qualified to help out when necessary.