Oh, well if a theosopher told you…
Just out of curiosity, what is a “non-physical being?” Doesn’t a being, by definition, have to be physical? What distinguishes the non-physical from the non-existent?
“By definition” Well, there you have it. I mean no disrespect, friend Dio when I suggest that the material mind, with its reliance on definition and certainty, is limited by its very reliance. It is a marvelous tool, don’t get me wrong, all of science is based on it and I stand second to no one in my admiration and gratitude for all it has done for us. The Hubble alone would be sufficient, as far as I’m concerned.
But it is limited. When applied where it is useful, it is splendid. When applied outside of its limitations, it leads to materialist abominations such as Marxism and Objectivism, Tweedledum and Tweedledead. Certainly, you can hunt butterflies with a hammer. Why should you want to?
A blind man goes to an art museum and demands to be lead to the Masterpiece. He leans forward and sniffs the painting thoroughly. He nods in satisfaction.
“Harumph!” he mutters “Just as I thought!”
Ouija boards are not toys. Ouija boards, Tarot cards, pendulums, crystal balls, and so forth are tools used by spiritualists to contact the spirit world. They are methods to contact “dead” people living in spirit. Psychics like James Van Praagh don’t need these tools, but can communicate directly. Whole books have been written from Quija boards, and are very coherent and valuable guides to life.
If you are not experienced with these tools don’t try to make them work without help. It is true some have become very frightened and fear causes mental problems. There are also many levels of spirit and some are not benevolent. Just because they’re dead don’t make them smart or kind.
The skeptics talk of unconscious material, but can’t define consciousness. There is a lot of evidence of the spiritual world, even contolled scientific studies that point in that direction. One thing holds true, the skeptics at best, study or print no information of any depth. They just assume they know, and they are wrong.
Love
Leroy
Yep, that’s skepticism- just assume it’s true.
Yes, they are, which is why they’re manufactured by toy companies.
Oh, I get it. You’re kidding. Not even true believers buy into transparent phonies like James van Praagh.
Lekatt:
If the Bible is not a sufficient authority for you, how about Oliver Cromwell?
I feel confident that I can speak for many, if not all, skeptics and scientists in citing Cromwell’s exhortation as a guiding principle. Would that more people imbued with religious certitude considered Cromwell (and Matthew 7:1-5) once in a while.
Welcome to the SDMB comma.
The only authority I’ve heard Lekatt recognize is his personal experience.
Lekatt’ll be along in a moment to tell you that I’ve misrepresented him in this.
Ah that explains it all… wait [scratches head] no it doesn’t.
So there is a material mind and an immaterial mind? Or are you suggesting the Dio has a materialistic mind?
Or that Marx was incapable of imagination because his political philosophy was some abomination because it was based on a leap of faith and imagination that there was some sort of order to how things progress… Or perhaps if blind man doesn’t like the smell of a masterpiece his opinion is immaterial…No that doesn’t sound right either. Maybe you are saying Dio stinks… I think he’s ok so that can’t be it either.
No you definitly have lost me here.
Maybe if I check my board an elemental will tell me… oh wait he only knows what I know… ’
Damn.
That’s OK, grasshopper. Its not for everybody.
So they aren’t ghosts or spirits, or dead people, but they ARE a virus-like “elemental” with no intelligence, yet with the will and energy to try and fox and frustrate the bejeebus out of us. They’re harmless, but they’re intent on pissing us off.
Then there are also “elementals” that ARE harmful, and more intelligent, and much more intent on spooking people.
I find it somewhat tragic that these “elementals” have been waiting throughout most of eternity with the one sole desire of trying to piss off us humans, not getting the chance until the ouija board was invented in the late 1800s. God they must have been bored in the meantime.
You learn something every day.
Or maybe you don’t.
I’m reminded of a book called The Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner. The book documents Harner’s experiences with South American shamanic traditions. In one anecdote, Harner describes an incident in which he ingested a large amount of some psychedelic potion in the jungle. He claims to have had an intense hallucination in which he sort of travelled into his own brain and interacted with some tiny red demons who called themselves the “Gods of outer Darkness.” They told Harner that they had existed for all of eternity and that they were the ones who really controlled the universe.
Later, after Harner had “returned” from his little trip he told an old Shaman about the experience. The Shaman was very dismissive and said “Oh, don’t listen to them. They always talk like that.”
Look, pal, nobody is trying to convince you of anything. I don’t want your money, I don’t need your approval, I’m not auditioning for disciples. I’ll tell you the truth as best I can, that is the sum of my responsibility. Perhaps you’ll find it helpful, almost certainly you will not find it useful. This ain’t no hardware store. Even if you look, you may not see, but if you don’t look, its a lead pipe cinch, isn’t it?
Keep in mind, I’m not trying to insult you or start an argument. No argument is possible. Take from it what you will.
Okay, I’ll bite.
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What alternatives do we humans have to using the “material mind”?
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What are its limitiations? How do you know that those are the limitations?
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How do we know (with our “material minds”) about anything outside the limitations of the “material mind”?
Y’know, just because something is nonfalsifiable doesn’t necessarily mean it’s false.
But it’s a pretty safe assumption.
You might want to check out the book, The Ouija Board, a doorway to the occut, bu Edmond C Gruss for a different view than those expressed by the others.
Wish we could edit. Spelling correction - doorway to the occult by Edmond C Gruss
Still you fail to understand! Perhaps I can explain it a little more clearly.
There was a man who worked at a convenience store. This man had no ears. One day a dog came into his store and asked for some “chewy”. The man with no ears said “I can’t hear you! I have no ears!” So the dog chewed on his legs.
I trust my meaning is clear.
The Ouija board my parents bought us* was made by Parker Brothers. Unless they’re a leader in the spiritual field, the thing is a frickin’ toy.
*Younger bro and myself. Why they bought a pair of staunch, unmystical atheists a Ouija board is beyond me. When we were given the thing, we started laughing and asking what the hell they’d been thinking.
Hey, same with the living! LOL. When I was in 10th grade, a bunch of my friends used one of these at a party. About four of them were told by a non-benevolent spirit - I think the name was Eli or something - that they’d be dead in a week. Suffice to say none of them are. Apparently these non-corporeal intelligences are about as intelligent as they are corporeal.
That’ll be news to a lot of scientists!
I suppose most of it has been conducted by Parker Brothers. Clue isn’t a game, it’s a tool of the spirit of Mr. Boddy! Replace “Ouija board” or “tarot cards” with “Clue” in lekatt’s post and the credibility will remain unchanged.
So saith the book of lekatt, chapter 12, verse 11. 
Yeah, the only tools Van Praagh and John Edward need are TV camera, suckers in the audience, oodles of money, unquestioning believers “skeptics throw off our powers,” techniques scientifically proven to work whether you claim to be psychic or not and lots of editing to ignore when they completely screw up.
Then again, the Straight Dope motto IS “fighting ignorance,” and the stuff you and lekatt are spouting is utter bullcrap. :wally
I hope to heck this is a joke - or at least an attempt at incomprehensibility.
And speaking of Chewy, one day Chewbacca and an Ewok were taking a shit on Endor.
“Does shit ever stick to your fur?” Chewy asked the Ewok.
“No,” said the Ewok.
So Chewy wiped his ass with the Ewok.
Hope that helps.