Allow me to assure you that the sentiment is now entirely mutual.
I don’t think that’s one quote, and I think the second part goes:
“When you gaze into the abyss the abyss must also gaze into you”
Personally, I take heart in that. All you lefties are like “Oh, no! The Abyss. It’s looking at us! Run away! Hide! It’s going to see us, and know what weak-ass pussies we are!”
Meanwhle, Bush Rummy et al will be like “You best not be looking at me or you’re going to get 'byss slapped.”
Seriously, what the quote means is the Abyss takes your measure.
Anyway, life’s abyss and then you die.
No. I give them about as much credibility as if they came from Baghdad Bob.
Yes, that’s what you guys are doing, by assuming individual rights violations, if they actually occur are the norm based on individual accounts.
No. That’s correct. To me they indicate a selective perception and selection looking to support a preconveived notion and those drawing conclusions from or willing to support such are not to be trusted.
We had two resolutions authorizing the use of force. The Dems wanted a second one so they could show how much they supported the use of force. Make no mistake, the second one was an endorsement of the President’s decision before the fact. Read the transcripts with all of Kerry’s and Kennedy’s “Their can be no doubt that Saddam posesses WMDS and is one of the worst dictators…”
As for the second part, the SIC saw the same data the President did and came to the same conclusion, and a special bipartisan committee concluded there was no manipulation.
What leg do you stand on?
Yes.
No. It’s Bananas. B.A.N.A.N.A.S!
Yes. It needs to be attacked.
Sure is. It seems de riguer, these days.
What about them? Innocents will suffer in war. It should be minimized to whatever extent possible, but the blame for the fact that we must go to war and that innocents must suffer because of our actions lies at the feet of those who attacked us.
I dunno. What’s the difference between torture and strong interrogation. Where is the line drawn? It does indeed help our enemies when suitable interrogation is mischaracterized and reported as torture.
You think I’m crazy? How can you compare us this away and expect me to take you seriously? We’re not cutting people’s heads off. We don’t target civilians.
Who said anything about hearts and minds? We’re not waging a PR campaign. Those that dislike us will continue to do so.
Sure.
Again, I don’t trust your arguments because you don’t begin from the same place as I do. You begin with the beleif that we are evil and doing wrong, have always done so, and continue to do so.
“Why do you hate America” is a ridiculed argument, but in fact it’s a reduction to absurdity of a valid point. The left begins from, and proceeds from the premise that we’re the bad guy.
We’re not.
I never thought otherwise.
You know, I’ve read most of this thread, and I’ve come to the conclusion that, indeed Scylla is both. He has shown that he is capable of being humorous and, on occasion, capable of reasonable debate. He probably still is.
But, he also lets his other, apparently more true side show, where he is a liberal-hating, apologist with flecks of foam around his rabid mouth, and who is incapable of actual debate. Just watch when he starts spouting about how then durn liberals run away from fights (compare Kerry v. Bush in Vietnam, asswipe), can’t protect our national security, want to sing kumbaya with Gitmo detainees, all the while overlooking the massive problems with this administration. The question is which one is the real Scylla. Ask him, and, true to his form, he’ll blame the liberals for pushing him so far that he has to explode with irrational vitriol and idiotic namecalling. Ask me? I think he’s a small minded, hyper masculine type A personality who can, on occassion, make a joke or a point. The question is whether or not it’s worth it to you, to sort through his bullshit to get to it.
A cogent analysis, Watson.
When the moon is full, even an evangelical conservative who says his prayers by night can become a rabid-liberal hater.
And this little piggy built his house out of straw.
What a reasonable aside. Clearly, it is I, Scylla who am off the wall.
Here we are in at least the 3,000 anti-bush, anti-conservative thread, in which you same bunch of wankers solemnly agree with the most hyperbolous half-wit tripe, whilst scowling down and tsk-tsking anybody who happens to come along and point out that the sky is not quite falling yet.
How can you keep a straight face in a thread in which the OP solemnly assures us that Bush and Cheney have singlehandedly destroyed the United States, and two hundred years worth of freedoms?
You’re simply full of shit, which, by itself, is ok. I’m full of shit, too.
You guys seem to really actually beleive what you say, and that’s just scary stupid.
Hell no, we are not in this together. For on thing, if we were, the military would not be getting abused the way they are by the Bush administration. For another, the “with me or against me attitude” is a good way to say there is no “togethter”, only OBEY.
I was born and raised in NYC, and used to work right near the World Trade Center (40 Wall Street actually). I knew people who worked all over that area. So don’t wave those buildings in my face.
Gee, that sounds just like Bush and his cronies. They would not know the truth if it jumped up and bit them on the ass. They are compulsive liars. They repeat the same lies even when they are shown to be untrue. WMD, yellow cake, AlQueda-Iran connections. All lies still being told. Faked documents. Documents proving that the war was being planned regardless of evidence or events (Downing Street). Cooking of intel (CIA report, Army WMD search reports etc). So who’s the liars?
So let’s sell our country up the river, just so the boogieman under the bed won’t get you. Justice, freedom, standing up for what is right? Forget that, just don’t let the monster in the closet get you? If you are willing to sell America so cheaply, then hell yess you are a coward. I’d rather go down fighting than sell out so easily to a gang of far right fearmongers.
Well hell. Let’s just make him a fucking king then. We don’t need a Congress or Constitution, we have a king. We don’t need laws, Bush can rule by decree.
Who ran his first campaign as the guy who would be everyone’s resident, actively courted the gay vote, and then sold out to the religious wingnuts?
That’s my take on them. They only care about themselves, and to hell with the country. Now you’re starting to get it. They prey on fear and hate, and foster it for personal gain. So why support them? Why buy into their bullsit? By your own words, you admit they are absolutely no good.
Win what? For who? It sure as fuck isn’t for us. Unwavering? Bush would not change one iota even if the entire country went up in flames. He lives in his own little fanasy world. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over, and expecting a different result. He’ll never change, he’ll never admit everything he ever touched in his whole life always went to shit, and even more inexcusable, he is nevr accountable for any of it. Fuck him with a rusty hatchet.
Elementary.
Or a half- moon. Or a quarter moon. Or a new moon. Or if there is any satellite at all in the night sky.
Yes, you do go off the wall, off the handle, and off the deep end. Not all the time, but often enough to make it a pain to have to slog through the crap to get to the point you were trying to make.
Gosh, where in heavens could I have gotten the idea that you thrive on overreaction? But points for working in the oppressed nature of the poor conservatives on the board. I’ll give you a hint, when you lower yourself to the level of the screeching harpies on the left, you aren’t winning the debate. And when you lump in the vast majority of the board in with them, you aren’t winning any friends either.
By dealing with the underlying issues rather than joining in the cacophony of idiotic namecalling of those who dare to disagree. I know that is wayyyyyy to much to expect from you, but a guy can dream, can’t he.
I see that reasoned debate is indeed your forte.
See, it’s not impossible for people of different political ideologies to agree!!
Yes, I actually believe you are a small minded, hyper masculine type A personality who can, on occassion, make a joke or a point. I also actually believe you, on occasions such as this thread, can give Dio and whoever the idiot OP person is, a run for their money in the idiotic demonization of those who have the audicity to disagree with you. If those beliefs scare you, maybe you should pay more attention to your own posts.
Are people coming back to their senses? I don’t think this is anything more than a blip, which will be spun out of existence, followed by pesonal attacks and appeals to blind stupid loyalty. It’s the cynic in me I guess.
RE: Our freedom is on it’s last legs (sic).
I agree. Why, just the other day Jones started talking about punctuated equilibrium like a loon. I told him to hush but he wouldn’t listen. Faster than you can say “immaculate conception” the red shirts had him in handcuffs. Such a pity – I liked Jones a lot.
I posted enough cites here to choke a horse. Are they going to just be ignored?
Maybe they’re choking a different farm animal…
As **Scylla ** is the only one in favor of surrendering our rights, and he has apparently given up reasoned discourse in favor of spewing venom. I doubt your cites will be responded too. I don’t know if even **Clothahump ** would defend the surrendering of our rights.
Jim
Well, hell. I was getting the feeling we were just wasting our time anyway…
Are you asking if I would give my life for freedom? Yes I would. Next question.
Hells yes, we are. Same country, same society, no man is an island entire of itself and all that crap."
I was born in the Bronx and I was in the WTC for the garage bombing, so stick that up your ass.
You are. Unless by faked documents you’re referring to Dan Rather’s.
This is precisely why I have no respect for you wingnuts. It’s why I find you despicable and sleazy. You consider the first bombing of the WTC, the second hijacking attacks that left thousands dead in a smoking pile of rubble, the Marine barrack attacks, the Cole, Bali, Spain, the London Subway, the ongoing terror attacks in Iraq, etc, etc, to the be the work of “boogieman under the bed?”
I can’t beleive a human being could be so blindly stupid as to say outright that we just made that up, it never happened, and there is no Al Quaeda. One day, you will have a collision with reality. Or, perhaps not.
How do I talk to somebody who insists on such stupidity?
And, people in this very thread have lamented that I don’t seem to be making reasonable and intelligent points much anymore. Well, I’m up against arguments too stupid to refute.
Easy, Glenn Close, easy.
Your engaging in political debate on an internet message board. Don’t tell me you didn’t think you weren’t wasting your time.
And, I’m sorry you’re so impatient. I do occasionally have better things to do than waste my time at this.
Awwright, your first cite:
95 out of 164 retired Methodist Bishops signed some sort of thing blaming themselves for their complicity in silence to GWB’s invasion.
So? I can post cites, too. You’re supposed to tell me what they mean. Personally, I don’t understand why retired 95 Methodist Bishops feel they need to apologize for the war in Iraq, or why the other 69 don’t and frankly, I don’t care.
Your second one:
Wes Clark’s opinion varies from the findings of the Bipartisan committee that examined the evidence leading up to the war and found those things did not occur. I find the Bipartisan committees report to be more researched and better founded then Wes’ off the cuff opinions.
Third one:
The Senate intelligence committee has the same access to intelligence as the Pres, as I understand these things. Senate in general has more limited access. That’s the reason why we have a Senate intelligence committee, as part of the checks and balances that make sure the administration isn’t feeding selective of false information to lawmakers.
This is a salient point, that this article neglects. Because it leaves out material facts, I don’t find it to be particularly interesting or credible.
Happy?
Holy fuck, you almost killed me! I was eating a handful of skittles and sucked 'em down my gullet. Don’t do that again.
Scylla: you’ve gone round the bend. If such things occur? What about the dozens of people who’ve died under torture by our forces? What does it say that such things can happen over, and over, and over again, and nobody stops them? If that doesn’t point to systemic problem, I don’t know what does.
Further, when I specifically say that, in some ways, we’re doing the same things our enemies do you twist that into fitting your absurd “Libruls are teh suxorz!” rant. Forgetting, it seems, that I am not a Liberal, nor a Democrat.
As for the resolutions for the war, did the folks know about how the OSP was operating? Or that Bush knew certain documents were, indeed, fakes (Niger Yellow Cake), before he made claims that they were genuine.
But I guess you’ll discount all of that, and question my patriotism to boot simply because I want us held to the highest possible standard. So, I suppose, I’ll simply conclude by saying:
“America, FUCK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah!”
It’s possible.
I’ll make you a deal:
You give me proof of two dozen or more dead by torture by US forces in the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001, and I will never say a word defending this war again.
If on the other hand, you fail to provide the proof to this very serious accusation that you have made, I will consider you a liar, who hates America and defames its soldiers simply for rhetorical value. Y’know, a traitor.
Actually, I’ll just consider you another hyperbolous wingnut.
I’m sorry, we’ve done yellow cake to death for years.
Two out of three is pretty good, but it’s only fair to hold you to the same standard.