Well, the Thanksgiving WMD deadline is almost upon us. I thought that I would put this thread here, not only so that Scylla could officially admit that it looks as if there are not any WMD in Iraq (and to be fair, her really did a pretty fair job of that in this thread anyway) but also so that, in the spirit of cleansing and healing, any other dopers that wanted to could step up and admit that the leader that they support(ed?) was either grossly misinformed, or lying
I didn’t expect anyone to actually remember this…
[conspiracy nut]
That’s what they count on.
[/conspiracy nut]
I admit it. The evidence is entirely overwhelming, I have no other option but to confess it.
I go now to the river, there to perform the Ancient Tasmanian Rite of Self-Abasement, accompanied by a Chorus of Bitter Virgins, intoning Dirges of Woe and Humiliation.
Can I have the virgins when you finish with them
But who will have you when they are finished with you?
Too bad we are still in such a fucked up situation over there, otherwise I might get some satisfaction out of this.
I object to any consideration that the President was Grossly Misinformed. The intelligence gathering community is one of the most professional and skeptical groups you could ever find, they do not create misinformation, but they generate highly accurate reports that politicians can intentionally misread, lie about, or cherry pick from.
Ewwwwwwwww. BD wants sloppy seconds.
Ummm… Okay… My name is Mangetout and I’d like to admit that I have been misinformed! - Totilus may not have been entirely forthcoming, or he may have simply been parroting the ideas set forth by Pelagius, if everything Procopius says is to be believed, that is.
Yeah, I should probably clear that up. I must admit to being pretty ambivalent in a lot of ways about this.
On the one hand, I took a lot of shit at the start of the war when I was stating that it really seemed like a bad idea and that Iraq didn’t seem as if it was an imminent thread at all. I was not alone in this. It would please me quite a bit if the folks that were slinging the shit were to admit that they were wrong, and apologize.
On the other hand, damn it, I wish that we had found something to justify this war! What is happening over there is fucking horrible, and it makes me ill to think that all of this suffering and death could be the result of shoddy intelligence (at best) or lies (at worst). To say nothing of the hit to our credibility.
What is strange to me is that I really know how the folks that supported Bush feel about this. I am pretty sure that this is exactly how I felt when it was starting to become pretty clear that Clinton had lied under oath. A mixture of wanting the folks running the witch-hunt to stop in, coupled with the rising dread that they might have a point or two that cannot be dismissed out of hand.
So, rambling though this is, I guess that what I am urging is that we look at the truth. You will not get a single “I told you so” from me, and I would urge others to adopt a similar attitude.
Com’on, guys. Don’t you think that poor old Scylla has been abused enough. My President apparently has been since there was an abrupt change of focus a couple months ago from the defense of the nation from the danger presented by the delivery of Iraqi terror weapons to guys like the elusive BenLadden, to the need to cleanse the whole freaking world of tyrants. Never mind that a fair number of those tyrants are our tyrants. Never mind that the places where we now seek to displace tyranny have experienced no government except tyranny (with time out for occasional anarchy) for the last millennium.
Most importantly, never mind that our President either lied to or negligently misrepresented to his country the rational and necessity for committing American lives, treasure, credibility and prestige to the elimination of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons–we never were doing that. It never happened. America was always out to bestow the benefits of liberal democracy on the benighted citizens of Iraq. That was our sole objective–freedom and universal sufferage for Iraq. We are not after terror weapons, never were.
Our President is fighting tyranny and terror by hitting it over the head with democratic institutions like governing counsels made up of ex-patriots and collaborators subject to the will of the American proconsul. That was the objective from the beginning. It must be true, I saw it in a TV ad. The President was not wearing a flight suit.
He did have on a red tie and a concerned expression, as if he was smelling a fart or multiplying 137 by 621.
Why would anyone possibly vote for Bush in 2004?
Seriously.
Fuck that. Some assholes called me a traitor and said I hate my country because I said I didn’t see a threat. Because I told Bush to pony up real evidence before I’d get behind a war-wagon. Now we’ve got blood all over our hands and there is still no evidence of a real threat.
I did tell you so god damnit. I was dragged through the mud for telling you so and I’ll be dammed if I’m going to let people get away with calling me a traitor when all I was trying to do was keep our country from killing people on flimsy pretexts.
Fuck that.
Enjoy,
Steven
And it ain’t over yet. Looks as if the fist shot across the Democrat’s bow for the presidential election is making the same type of allegations. Sad really.
I think it’s unfair using Scylla’s name in the title.
He has already done it in this post
Bolding mine.
yojimbo, You did see that I acknowledged that Scylla had done so in my OP, right? Never the less, if the way that I titled the thread offends, please accept my apologies.
And what the hell does that mean jimbo?
Ah forget it, that’s probably the best we’ll see.
Hang on there. At the risk of being wooshed like it’s going out of style: we’re talking about the same “intelligence” services that brought forth a 2001 letter, signed by a Niger government member that had been out of office since 1989?
The simple fact is that aparently, US foreign intelligence is rather shaky at best. Skeptical, my ass. They swallowed that load of crap whole, whereas a 12 year old could have debunked with a 10 second Google search.
And that’s what GWB based his war decicions on.
No doubt GWB lied his ass off to sell this war, but the intelligence services (the UK ones included) don’t get off scott free here.