Our local school superintendent is a doofus.

[Voyager]

@grayhairedmomma

I just wanted to say that a local children’s theater performed this recently and it was beautifully done. Funny, moving and engaging. So it all depends on the talents involved.

From the reviews I saw, I can well believe your local theater had better talent than the Broadway show.

Actually, there aren’t that many good plays for children’s theater. But number one in high school? (Spoken as an active consumer of children’s theater when my kids were little.)

[Updike]

@Voyager

I reject the validity of the complaints, but not the right of the people to make them.

Well, that’s a start. The letter-writers were exercising their right to make their opinions known to a local government official.

So how do you translate that into “suppressing” (I assume you mean the students’) rights?

And just what “rights” do you think were suppressed, anyway? Can you be specific?

[MrJackboots]

@Shagnasty

I wish more schools would direct the play using that view. Students may find it more entertaining and educational.

I know an English teacher who hands out roles for the class to read out loud and gives out extra credit for finding the penetration jokes. It’s legendary. The kids love it. Whether it’s more educational that way or not, I’m not sure.

How’s that?

[tomndebb]

Do you think we could get Gibson to write a book and O’Reilly to trumpet the cause, defending America from the “War on Drama”?

[Clothahump]

@tomndebb

Unless Zeffirelli kept the post-production for two years, she was at least 16 and maybe 17*, not 15, when the the movie was filmed. Zef let out that she was younger than she was in order to hype the movie. (I saw her in an interview, one time, where she ruefully described losing a boyfriend because he bought the hype and was afraid he’d get in trouble for dating a “kid.”) For that matter, at least her age has “advanced” to 15. When the movie came out, the rumors were talking fourteen or younger–hence her boyfriend’s issues.
*(Born April, 1951, movie released October, 1968.)

IMDB indicates that she was about 16 or so when the movie was released, which means she was probably 15 when the half-second boob shot was filmed. She also apparently had weight issues. From IMDB:

A rumor surrounding this film was that Olivia Hussey was really Franco Zeffirelli’s daughter. Not true, of course. Franco Zeffirelli initially turned Olivia Hussey down for the role of Juliet, thinking her overweight. The actress he did choose cut her hair just before filming, ruining the effect she had on Zeffirelli. Hussey came in for another reading but by this time had developed into a beautiful teenager. She got the part.

Franco Zeffirelli became concerned by Olivia Hussey’s full figure during filming, and ordered that no more pasta would be served on the set.

[Voyager]

@Updike

So how do you translate that into “suppressing” (I assume you mean the students’) rights?

The teacher’s right also. It appears that the teacher cannot decide what play to put on without being worried about complaints by extremists (and complaining about Grease in the way they did is extreme) and, as I mentioned, she is worried about her job.

This being the Pit, I’m defining rights loosely here - but a drama teacher should have the right to put on a reasonable play without having to worry about implied threats from the community. By reasonable, I mean no “Oh, Calcutta.” Considering she censored the play to meet community standards before putting it on, she seems hardly a Bohemian radical free-speecher.

As for threats - well, either the Superintendant is such a pussy that the slightest complaint from the community sparks an excessive response, in which case the vast majority of the blame is on him, or else the letters represented not three independent comments but the beginning of a massive attack on the school if they did not respond appropriately.

If the latter situation is the case, do you find it proper for a church to interfere with the internal workings of a school in this way? Where would you draw the line? Would students and teachers rights be violated if the Superintendant say that massacres during the Crusades couldn’t be discussed? If a picture in an art book had to be removed? That books be removed from the library?

[tomndebb]

@Clothahump

IMDB indicates that she was about 16 or so when the movie was released, which means she was probably 15 when the half-second boob shot was filmed. She also apparently had weight issues. From IMDB:

As speculation, this is a legitimate hypothesis, which is why I went looking for some more information, which I submitted in post #31, with a link indicating that Ms. Hussey was 16 by the time filming began.

(The IMDb’s non-professional contributors, while better than run-of-the-mill, are not actually professional.)

D.o.B.: April 17, 1951
Filming began: June 29, 1967
Film released (France) October, 1968

[Updike]

@Voyager

This being the Pit, I’m defining rights loosely here - but a drama teacher should have the right to put on a reasonable play without having to worry about implied threats from the community.

So loosely, in fact, that real rights become meaningless. :rolleyes:

C’mon now, the “right” “to put on a reasonable play without having to worry about implied (read: imaginary) threats from the community?”

What threat? 3 people wrote a letter to the Superindent of Schools. How is that a threat, real, or implied?

[Zebra]

I remember a few years ago, a high school gave up on doing West Side Story because of complaints that the play was racist and had terms like Spic in it.
IIRC the original theatrical show of Grease was very different from the movie. I wonder what version the school was doing.

[Voyager]

@Updike

So loosely, in fact, that real rights become meaningless. :rolleyes:

C’mon now, the “right” “to put on a reasonable play without having to worry about implied (read: imaginary) threats from the community?”

What threat? 3 people wrote a letter to the Superindent of Schools. How is that a threat, real, or implied?

Here is aquote from a letter from Stephen Nellis, the reporter who broke the story and who lives in Fulton, in the Times today.

@Stephen Nellis

Your article outlines how the complaints of a few people can shift the boundaries of decency for a town of about 10,000. Such a situation, however, could hardly be called a “culture war.” Rather, it is a hostage situation. The majority is held captive by a small, though vociferous, group of critics who wait to pounce on anything “offensive.”

He then notes how the decision was made with no public debate.

As I said upthread, most censorship is self-censorship.

Marlitharn, if you’re still here, is the town speaking out against this guy? Nellis thinks that the majority is opposed to limiting what the students can put on, is it true?

[Marlitharn]

Well, here’s what the superintendant has to say about it. Along with the local paper’s take on it:

Editors note: The Fulton Sun is in agreement with Mark Enderle - after the controversy stirred by the New York Times article, this issue has received enough attention. We will not print any more letters to the editor on this subject.

I think I pulled a muscle from all the eye rolling.

No public outcries, no petitions, no demonstrations, no students walking out in protest like they did back in ‘92 when the new fascist principal fired the very popular assistant principal for no reason (ah, the good ol’ days); we’re an apathetic little town. Several of the parents of the kids involved wrote letters to the editor, along with almost everyone else in town (the ones capable of spelling ‘cat’, anyway) wanting to know why three complaints made a month after the fact should have any bearing on what the high school drama club chooses to perform; I have yet to see a satisfactory answer to that question.

[Voyager]

@Marlitharn

Well, here’s what the superintendant has to say about it.

Thanks for the link.

We’re not banning it - the students just can’t put it on. :rolleyes:

Holy crap.

[Updike]

@Voyager

Here is aquote from a letter from Stephen Nellis, the reporter who broke the story and who lives in Fulton, in the Times today.
He then notes how the decision was made with no public debate.

As I said upthread, most censorship is self-censorship.

In other words, you got nothing. You claim that students and teachers “rights” were violated by this decision, by 3! people who wrote letters. But you can’t explain what “rights” were violated, and you ignore the fact that the letter-writers aren’t in any position to violate anyone’s rights in the first place.

:rolleyes:

[Guinastasia]

Updike, just shut up. Don’t throw a hissyfit because you’re too pork stupid to understand.

[Updike]

@Guinastasia

Updike, just shut up. Don’t throw a hissyfit because you’re too pork stupid to understand.

My dear, I am not the one throwing a hissy fit here. Voyager is the one making silly claims about violation of rights regarding a stupid high school play.