There was more than one link. And the one that **IntelSoldier **was referencing (and which I commented on) was from antiwar.com. Clink on William Lind in the OP.
PS-Of course, you are all welcomed to believe that America is the world’s shinning star and nothing it does could possibly be wrong.
5000,000 dead Iraqis aside of course.
When truth is horror, Red, exaggeration is pointless.
What are you talking about? Who are you talking to? You’d be a lot less harmful to the cause you supposedly advocate if you actually engaged people rather than simply making up and knocking down Generic Evil Conservative strawmen. You’re really no different from the talk radio idiots who talk about The Liberals and how They want to do x, y, and z, ignoring all statements from actual liberals of what they actually believe and want to do.
Stop being such a useless dumbass. Be more like elucidator. In fact, any time elucidator starts posting in a thread, immediately stop posting and just watch.
"I love compliments, we all do…burglars, humorists, Congressmen, all of us in the trade…Why, I could live for a week on a single compliment!
But I was struck speechless by this complimentary thunderbolt! Never have a I heard a compliment so well phrased, or so richly deserved!"
- Mark Twain
On second thought, what the fuck do YOU think you’re “accomplishing” here? Other than insulting me and rebutting none of my arguments?
And speaking of “assholes” I’d imagine a giraffe’s much larger than mine anyway. But then again, it appears you’re the “expert” when it comes to defending your nation’s carnage and pillage of other (defenseless) countries, so who’s to say to say you’re not an asshole expert as well?
Weird all of it, because you seemed like a fairly leveled-headed chap prior to this bugle-call outburst.
Sorry, you get no luc’ II with moi. It is what it is. He is witty and normally level-headed. I’m brash and and hot-blooded.
But if nothing else, we’re together in TRUTH as regards this whole pointless butchering in Iraq.
Besides, I don’t do impressions. WYSIWYG.
Since when is Giraffe an apologist / excuser of this clusterfuck?
If you have a problem with what Lind is saying, feel free to rebut his words. I quoted him because he states clearly and succinctly something that should already be old news (dropping bombs is an own goal in fighting an insurgency), and why it should be old news (the three reasons he gives). If there’s a counterargument, go for it.
In so far as I know, he started here.
How do I make my voice do this? 
If I read RedFury right, what pisses him off about IntelSoldier is his bullshit claim of precise accuracy in raining down death from the sky. We all know it’s bullshit, we all know there’s plenty of “collateral damage” when dropping bombs on insurgents, and this ‘supreme accuracy of the eye in the sky’ absurdity that I.S. is selling is a horrid and doomed attempt to wash himself clean if, in fact, he plays the role in such bombings that he claims.
I completely agree with his “fuck off” to IntelSoldier. I have no idea what your problem with his post @9 was, since you told him off without telling him why.
(BTW, IntelSoldier, we’ve had other intel soldiers in years past that posted here. Track record? Not good. Don’t bother citing yourself as an authority.)
“There he is, Sgt. Rockjaw! Ali-bin-Evil, the tall, bearded guy in the middle of that cluster of Campfire Girls!”
“Not to worry, I’ll pick him off with a hand grenade…”
Fair point. I think RedFury’s over the top rhetoric has been wearing on me for a while, and post #9 was where it finally was enough that I snapped at him. I should have waited until the annoyance passed so I could both snap at him and tell him why he was pissing me off.
Basically, I find his combative, over-the-top demonization of those he argues with very irritating. I mean, after I bitched at him he immediately and reflexively dismissed me as a defender of the carnage in Iraq. That’s pathetic. It shows he has no interest in doing anything more than basking in his own outrage. More seriously, I think he aids those who would dismiss critics of the war as hysterical and out of touch with reality.
His response to IntelSoldier is a perfect example. A thread is started to discuss the damaging effect increased bombing could have on the civilian population and question the effectiveness of such tactics in fighting insurgency. Five or six posts follow, agreeing with the OP. Someone who claims to have first-hand experience that contradicts parts of the OP posts a dissenting view. RedFury calls him a murderer and tells him to fuck off.
What’s the point of having a thread like this if you’re going to call anyone who claims a differing viewpoint a murderer and tell them to fuck off? Be rude all you want, but at least engage in discussion or argument. You did that, elucidator did that, but my guess is that it’s too late – any replies from IntelSoldier are going to be sniping back and forth with RedFury. It’s boring, and I’m sick of it.
Give RedFury this much, Giraffe – at least he can still feel furious outrage at the latest insanities. I’m over here with elucidator, my outrage tanks exhausted, running on fumes of despair.
I typically can’t stand reading peoples’ poetry, because it sounds hollow and forced, but even though I don’t completely agree with what you’re saying I have to admit that the way you said it is pretty appealing.
Thanks for that.
Yeah, remember at the start of the war when we identifed and killed Saddam Hussein and didn’t kill 50+ civilians due to bad intelligence and technical glitches?
It’s true. The amount of civilians we can kill per bomb is way more efficient now than when we used gravity bombs.
Sure you can, if you drop enough. I’m surprised we just haven’t begun mass saturation bombing of neighborhoods that don’t follow orders. It’s not like there would be any consequences for those who make the decisions.
Spot-on as is marshmallow’s example of the “surgical precision” with which the Air Force drops its bombs. I got pissed at IntelSoldier because he came in peddling bullshit we KNOW is not true since practically the start of hostilities. If it angers Giraffe that I called IntelSoldier’s bullshit just that, it’s his problem not mine. And yes, it does make him an apologist by denying what is so obvious to anyone else that’s kept up with the news coming out of Iraq:
U.S. Airstrikes Take Toll on Civilians
Cluster Bombs, Air Strikes Killed Hundreds in Iraq by Jim Lobe
Missile Strike Kills 22 Civilians In Iraq
CNN.com - Airstrike kills 14 in Falluja - Oct 8, 2004
US, British air strikes kill Iraqi oil workers
U.S. airstrikes kill 56 near Iraq-Syrian border
US air strikes on Basra kill 77 civilians, wound 366
Iraq Civilian Casualties? Who Knew? | TIME
Even our best smart bombs will kill civilians
Political Affairs Magazine - 78000 Iraqis Killed by Coalition Air …
The War on Iraq Has Made Moral Cowards of Us All – By Scott Ritter:
– bolding/underlining mine.
Plenty more where those came from. Still willing to stick your neck out for IntelSoldier and insult me, Giraffe?
Can’t have that, ETF, you and luc are in a position to do a lot more than I to end this outrage.
Chin-up, dear. Hard as it might be.
You say that as if there’s an excuse, a rationalization even, for the actions and positions of those he takes issue with. That apparently includes you. Might you kindly trouble to present a case for it instead of simply sniping, then?
That’s what you think after you’ve calmed down? Really? You don’t think it’s just barely possible that what he’s outraged over could just be useless killing, and the rationalization or acceptance of it?
The very practice of demonization you accuse Red of is quite evident in that statement of yours. You show no comprehension of what he’s outraged about, or ability to recognize that he’s in fact thinking of anything but himself. You actually accuse him of *enjoying * it.
What *is * the reality of this war to you, then? What have you presented to us that demonstrates any substance to that demonization of yours?
The point is about saving lives and ending the war. That should be fucking obious. Is there something more important you’d rather discuss?
Yep. Try it yourself sometime.
elucidator’s point about war deadening the soul is quite apt. You, sadly, appear to be yet another victim.
A Pit thread that is both biting AND profound, didn’t see that coming. To ElvisL1ves and RedFury, it’s a noble fight and if logic and proof are brought into it you’ll surely win, but it will be a shallow victory for they will walk away deciding you’re wrong anyway. Still, for the people who are on the fence, it’s working.
Bush’s ratings are the lowest they’ve ever been and still going down, so Americans are seeing the light.