No, just Republicans. Everyone else has already seen it.
We have children. Despair is not an option.
It has nothing to do with my opinion of the positions of those he’s arguing with. I completely disagree with IntelSoldier’s assessment of the necessity or effectiveness of increased airstrikes in fighting insurgency. However, I wouldn’t claim to have a better understanding of what is needed to win a pitched military battle or how airstrikes are carried out in practice, nor would I simply dismiss his statements as those of someone who wants to justify his murders. Rather, I would point out that the argument in the OP is not about how to most effectively win battles, but that how one wins battles is what can and will lose the war. I would also question his assertions as to how minimal civilian casualties really are (as elucidator did). He may chose to ignore those arguments and questions, but they’re a lot harder to dismiss than someone simply calling you a murderer and showing no interest whatsoever in the actual practical reality of the war.
It’s not about enjoyment, it’s about taking the easy road. It’s easy to dismiss those you argue with rather than engaging them. It’s easy to drive them away with insults and attacks. But it’s pointless and ineffective. (Yes, I know, I’m doing the same thing by insulting and attacking RedFury. Don’t look at me, I’m a monster, etc.)
And in my opinion, that is the last thing that posts like RedFury’s will accomplish. At best, they’ll accomplish nothing. At worst, they’ll make the job more difficult.
“But… but… you’re wearing lederhosen!”
“Ja, fer sure… from Sveden. Please help me wit my rucksack.”
Why don’t we just arm the Sunnis with bombers. Mission accomplished.
I quite take your point, Giraffe. But who is left to be persuaded by calm and reasonable dialogue? Let us assume that the last election is attributable entirely to such a strategy, that we have firmly demonstrated the will of the people.
Now what? For all that, are we any closer? Will our ends become manifest if we only convince the remaining 1/10th of a percent who has no firm opinion? Our political enemies are not amenable to reason, Lord knows, that has been demonstrated to the meanest intelligence. So, now what?
If I may make so bold as to peer into the mental machinery of a natural born shit-disturber…I think it was the condescension. The way IntelSoldier gives the wussy civilian a pat on his pretty little head and suggests we leave all this to the professionals. For those of us on the edge of late youth, it rings a knell, its *deja voodoo * all over again. (If I never again hear a line like “fighting with one hand tied behind our backs”, it will be far too soon) I should very much like to watch him engage Mr. Ritter’s arguments, as iron-ass a Marine as ever breakfasted on nails. But he seems to have found other pursuits, or perhaps a more malleable audience.
I have, and will, offer the occasional “tut-tut” to my companero Red Furry, but I cannot fault him beyond the mildest. While it is true that one draws more flies with honey than with vinegar, shit still works best.
that’s been used.
You might actually regain a little credibility by addressing that point in a less-mocking manner. Or knocking that shit right off, even better. Doesn’t look good right now, though.
Can you support that opinion with any examples or analogies or precedents (and you probably don’t want to go there), or is all you have a cheap opinion?
Is this cheap opinion derived from anything more than your own irritation at having to confront your being crossways with such trivial matters as reality and morality and civilization?
What, in fact, *do * you think is worth your outrage today? What principles *do * you stand for? What actually matters to you?
By the way, you can disagree with William Lind all you want–I’m sure there are a number of things I’d disagree with him about–but he’s not someone who can be dismissed just because he writes on an anti-war website. He’s quite knowledgable about military affairs.
The bombs used in 2007 are probably a might bit more accurate than in wars past, presumably resulting in less collateral damage. And bombs are never going to be perfectly accurate so don’t expect them to be. Eggs and omelets and all. When there is a war to be fought, there is no way to keep innocent people from dying.
So this will seem like an obvious question. And it is, it is. But it is totally fair to ask this today and also tomorrow and the day after: JUST WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DROPPING THESE PRECISION GUIDED MUNITIONS ON PEOPLE’S HEADS FOR AGAIN??? WHY ARE WE DROPPING ANYTHING ON THESE PEOPLE’S HEADS? IS AN IRAQI INVASION OF THE ATLANTIC SEABOARD IMMINENT? WERE THE WMD FINALLY FOUND?
Or perhaps you say we are defending our brave troops? I will be all for whatever force is needed to protect Americans’ 6 as they turn around and leave–even if it means collateral damage, as sad as that is. But I don’t see the USA going anywhere.
Seriously, is this necessary? I mean I know it never was, and it isn’t now, but really-- anyone got any argument in favor of these airstrikes or ANY offensive military action whatsoever?
(PS-- didn’t like that ALL CAPS action? Did it hurt anyone’s eyes as much as hot, accurate, bomb shrapnel hurts other people’s eyes? No? Okay.)
PPS-- I guess it’s fairly clear, but just in case: I am not disagreeing or arguing with either RT’s or RF’s positions here.
Why do you hate… (sigh) oh, nevermind.
(I didn’t attribute this to ILMvI because I realize that it is itself a quote from the playbook IntelSoldier et al. have learned by heart.)
Whenever I encounter this sort of bushwa I’m reminded of a snippet from Heinlein’s Double Star:
We can all see the broken eggs, its the omelette that remains theoretical.
I dismissed IntelSoldier’s “point” right off the bat, not only due to its condescending nature but because, by now, it it rather common knowledge that the great majority of Iraqis killed by the American invaders has been by way of airstrikes. Besides, I don’t know the poster from Adam, but I DO know that his “point” has been beaten to death on these boards – it’s straight out of the rank and file in Freeper Republic.
A bit further on I disputed and debunked John Mace’s “argument” that we believed the article solely (or mostly) because it came from “Antiwar.com.” Provided both evidence and cites in my rebuttal. I engaged John, even if annoyed with him, because he is someone I respect both as a poster and a person – even if our views don’t normally mesh.
I then went ahead and provided fourteen (count them,** 14!**) links proving that IntelSoldier was/is either a fucking liar or a troll. Didn’t do it for him, but rather for anyone who might be reading this thread and might believe such claptrap.
Took me a good hour, hour and a half, to do the proper research. And you fucking think that I am “enjoying this” and “taking the easy road”? Lord almighty, might want to have that recent concussion looked at again. Because there is no other way to explain the inane round of attacks you’ve launched at me – great, you don’t like me and/or my posting style. Like I give a shit. Or better yet, like you’ve contributed anything of substance to this thread other than personal attacks accusing me of doing same.
:::speechless:::
As for whatever other garbage you’ve spewed against me, I think Elvis, RT and luc have already pretty much covered it. Must say, it does sadden me a bit to see someone like you, whom I held in fairly high esteem, loose his marbles like you have.
In closing, I’ve been outraged from waaaay before Day One of this carnage and FWIW, will continue to be until I see an end to it. I mean, if what the US did and continues to do in Iraq is not enough to trigger your own sense of outrage, morality and empathy, then, honestly, I don’t know what is.
And yes, I shamelessly admit it. At this point in time I have little left but scorn for those who continue to support this madness.
Want me gone? Find a reason and beat me over the head with your mighty Mod-stick. Because I’ll never be luc’, RT, Elvis or whomever the fuck else you think “helps” to stop this madness. I’ve got the power of my convictions and plenty of facts to back them up – and that’s all I need/want to be who I am. I’ll also add, false modesty aside, that I feel pretty well in my wrinkling old skin.
The End.
I know you freaked out recently when I praised your posts, but your posts in this thread are the best ever. I guess I never liked the witty drive-bys because I was often the person stung by them. But when you take a matter seriously, you’re the most compelling writer on the board.
You have to understand that this is hard, real hard. All we need do is to … yadda, yadda, yadda. See?
Yeah see though, that’s not really the point. When wars were traditionally fought you could blow up enough stuff and their supplies ran out and gave up. Terrorism is an abstraction, a tactic. Killing innocent people in itself PERPETUATES terrorism. That’s what you’re not seeing here. This isn’t working BECAUSE of mentalities like yours.
The accuracy of bombing is always exaggerated. The fact is in bombing innocents die too. We started this war with bombing and it did not do the job. We can kill with bombs but we can not win. The eventual outcome of this war will be hearts and minds won thru negotiation. It wont be by making a vast wasteland… Saying we fight with one hand tied behind our back is ludicrous. We have the most advanced weaponry and instrumentation in the world. The advantage is all ours. That kind of justification can result in nukes. After all we canj’t have our hands tied.
Right. The true short term target is terrorists, not terrorism. Armies are without much doubt the poorest and most clumsy way to fight terrorists that could be conceived.
A long term objective would be to figure out what makes terrorists in such large numbers. I don’t have much hope that a long term objective like that will even be looked at seriously.
Word.
Mayhaps you can feed me lines such as the above as a way to avoid Giraffe’s wrath vis-a-vis my lack of writing talent and general ignorance?
On second thought, never mind. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love your rapier-like wit and all-around smarts…but I like me (warts and all) even better. Though, as you already know, I willingly accept a rap across the knuckles when you think my Spanish blood is getting the worst of me.