Although I never supported going to war with Iraq in the first place, I do understand the need to be there so that we can finish what we started. Leaving too early would be “bad form” in a manner of speaking.
But with the catastrophe at hand, doesn’t this create a viable exit for us? Iraq has a government, a constitution, and there’s probably not much more good that we can do there. Let’s bail! The cost of Katrina alone is reason enough to pull out, not to mention the need for gulf coast native soldiers to get home to take care of their families. Even if the job in Iraq is not complete (whatever that might mean), aren’t our internal issues now urgent enough where pulling back is in tune with the higher priority of stabilizing our country?
It seems to me that the silver lining in this terrible tragedy is that it presents an opportunity for the United States to get out of Iraq with our dignity in tact.
Most liberals would gladly welcome any reason get out. But would conservatives on this board agree with this possible scenario?
Leaving now would be obvious. I doubt those who would run as soon as they got the chance would save face because of Katrina. The President and many military officials said we can handle both. And I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary besides the proclamations of those who wanted to run before Katrina.
I think you’re being way too simplistic in dividing this issue along liberal/conservative lines. There are lots of liberals who, even though they opposed the Iraq war all along, maintain that it would be unconscionable to pull out quickly while Iraq is still so unstable. Prominent exponents of this position include antiwar liberal Juan Cole (“People often allege that the US military isn’t doing any good in Iraq and there is already a civil war. These people have never actually seen a civil war and do not appreciate the lid the US military is keeping on what could be a volcano”).
At the same time, there is a growing number of conservatives who have lost faith in the effectiveness of the Iraq occupation and are already calling for US withdrawal.
(Personally, I am an antiwar liberal forced to confess that I have no fucking idea what we should do with this intolerable situation at this point. Ordinarily I think it’s a citizen’s responsibility not only to stay informed but to have and profess, when possible, definite opinions about important issues, in order to help influence public opinion and political decision-making. At this point, though, on this issue, I give up. I’m tossing the decision back into the laps of the fuckups who got us into this. Let them get us out of it.)
I think you’re being way too simplistic in dividing this issue along liberal/conservative lines. There are lots of liberals who, even though they opposed the Iraq war all along, maintain that it would be unconscionable to pull out quickly while Iraq is still so unstable. Prominent exponents of this position include antiwar liberal Juan Cole (“People often allege that the US military isn’t doing any good in Iraq and there is already a civil war. These people have never actually seen a civil war and do not appreciate the lid the US military is keeping on what could be a volcano”).
At the same time, there is a growing number of conservatives who have lost faith in the effectiveness of the Iraq occupation and are already calling for US withdrawal.
Er, Iraq has a draft constitution whose completion didn’t conform to the laws established for drafting it, which has already been criticized by large numbers of Sunnis as illegitimate and unacceptable, and which isn’t even going to be voted on until the national referendum scheduled for October 15. By all means, let’s be as hopeful and positive as possible about the chances of forming a stable government in Iraq, but let’s not fudge the facts about the magnitude of the task remaining.
(Personally, I am an antiwar liberal forced to confess that I have no fucking idea what we should do about the Iraq occupation at this point. Ordinarily I think it’s a citizen’s responsibility not only to stay informed but to have and profess, when possible, definite opinions about important issues, in order to help influence public opinion and political decision-making. At this point, though, on this issue, I give up. I’m tossing the dilemma back into the laps of the fuckups who got us into this situation. Let them get us out of it.)
The Iraqi draft constitution hasn’t been ratified…and there is some questions whether or not it WILL be ratified. The federalism provisions especially seem to be a major sticking point. Until the constitution is ratified the Iraqi’s have a provisional government…not a full blow government. The Iraqi military isn’t ready to go it alone.
We don’t need additional troops into NO…the problem isn’t one of man power but one of logistics (like moving massive amounts of necessary items and personnel into the area while trying to move people out of the area…its more difficult than most people seem to think) and infrastructure (i.e. flooded or destroyed roads, 5 feet of water in the city, the city below sea level). If we could instantly have every troop from Iraq magically teleported to NO it wouldn’t help one bit…it would actually hurt as we are only now getting the logistics in place to support the victims of the flood. Supporting all those additional troops would further strain supplies in the area, unless you are going to tell all the troops to suck it up and go without food, water and medical supplies, etc…or unless you are going to divert some of those supplies (just starting to reach the victims in meaningful amounts) to go without so we can support the troops. Moot point of course since we don’t have that magical teleport machine…
And if we did start bringing the troops home (without the magic teleporter), by the time we got them home NO would be rebuilt. What? You figured we’d put em all on planes and have em home in a week? If we started today getting ready to pull out it would be next year before the troops came home…unless of course you just want to leave all our heavy weapons and supplies behind.
How would leaving the Iraqi’s behind to face the music of a full blow civil war with all the death and destruction that would entail be the US getting ‘out of Iraq with our dignity in tact’…unless the slaughter wouldn’t make you feel bad, since we had an excuse and all. Of course, it would be a bullshit excuse because by the time the troops get home the crisis will be long over…and a hell of a lot more Iraqi’s would die that have died in NO. But we’d have our dignity and all, so its all good…right?
We are committed to finishing the job we started, it would be very, no make it VERY, short sighted to cut and run, and it could only hurt, no make it HURT, us in the future.
I didn’t suggest we send any more soldiers to NO. It’s the money that we’re spending in Iraq that would be better spent on our own people in the Gulf Coast. Rebuilding will certainly cost plenty, but we could be looking at a considerable economic catastrophe as well. Having out government continue hemmoraging money via the expense of Iraq would be imprudent, at best.