Outlander on Starz Season 2 Discussion Thread

Outlander will be featured on CBS Sunday Morning on June 26. They’ll visit the Scottish highlands and talk to Diana.

“Dying brothers” was this week’s theme, seemingly. As satisfying as it would be to see Jamie finally finish Black Jack - only ever read the book once, so can’t remember how he dies and if it’s at Jamie’s hands - damn I’m going to be sorry to see him go. Tobias Menzies’ acting in this episode was intense.

Scottish history nerd time - I don’t know if Diana, or Ron, had this in mind, but historically, one of the reasons for the Jacobite loss at Culloden was the men’s exhaustion after a night of pointless marches. It was pretty much as the episode depicted it, except that it was Murray who suggested the night attack at Nairn, hoping to repeat the success of Prestonpans, but when the Prince’s column got lost, he decided that it was too risky and led part of his men back to Inverness. He took a different road, though, and two thirds of his troops never got the order to retreat; it took them a while to realize that the attack had been cancelled, and slowly make their way back to the Jacobite encampment.

Anyway, all that to point out that, within the Outlander story, Jamie caused the defeat at Culloden; at least, in part. If he hadn’t sold the war council on the Nairn attack, the men would have been fresher for the subsequent battle at Drumossie Moor. Cleverly ironic, no? If the finale has some reference to the men having not had any sleep, I’ll suspect this was a deliberate choice by Ron.

Terry got in another good costume-based joke at Prince Charles’ expense - one of the first scenes shows Jamie with a big armful of basket-hilted claymores. But when the Prince makes his “I am a soldier” speech, he shows off a delicate French dress sword. (At first, I thought it was a walking stick, until he flourished the hilt). Subtle and clever.

Couple of anachronisms that bothered me, though - Mary told Claire she had “contacted” Alex, and later asked him if he was okay. I’m pretty sure “contact” was not a verb then, and I know “okay” was about a hundred years too early. But the one that really bothered me was all the references to “Culloden Moor”. Culloden is a village near Inverness, arranged around a manor house that was home to the Forbeses of Culloden. The battle was actually fought on Drumossie Moor, three miles to the south. Of course, the battle is known as “the battle of Culloden”, and nowadays people do call it “Culloden Moor”, so this was probably Ron trying to avoid ambiguity. But I’m a history geek, and am bound by the Doper oath to nitpick, so it’s Drumossie Moor, dammit!

Still, I liked this episode. Graham McTavish, and especially Tobias Menzies, were riveting.

Spoiler alert for BJR’s death.

It’s never really clear. Jamie comes to after the battle to find BJR lying dead across his legs. It was BJR’s weight that helped stop the blood loss Jamie would have had after his hideous leg wound. Either Jamie killed him or Murtagh did. Jamie doesn’t remember much of the battle.

I love how they’re planting seeds for future seasons. The Frenchman’s Gold (with a Cameron in the room!) won’t pay off until at least season 5 or 6.

I was never clear exactly when Mary and Alex had their sexy time so she could get pregnant. BJR says Alex hadn’t drawn an easy breath in weeks. So she’s what, about two months? I guess she got over her reticence pretty quick. :smiley:

I noticed BJR gently touched Mary’s arm in greeting. It was interesting to see that he knows what a horrible person he is and fears he won’t be able to control it. Not sure what beating his dead brother was all about…mad he died?

I can understand the discontinuity about Culloden vs Drumossie. All season they’ve talked about stopping the battle at Culloden. It would have been confusing to start talking about Drumrossie.

I loved the touch of Fergus’ knit wrap being torn and holey. I really thought they’d end this episode with Jamie killing Dougal but I guess we’ll get that in the 90 minute finale.

Starz will be showing a marathon of season two over the 4th of July weekend, then the finale on July 9.

Oh, one other thing. I thought Geillis killed her husband with white arsenic. Why did Claire refer to it as cyanide? Is that the same thing? And I understand the main poison in yellow jasmine is strychnine, which is not at easy death, IIRC.

Nice final scene with Dougal and Colum, but I think it speaks to Dougal’s mindset that he blames his brother for not getting better after being thrown from the horse. More likely that aggravated his condition. Poor Colum was going to suffer from it sooner or later.

Yes, I interpreted that as BJR’s inability to handle the sadness of his brother’s death, so he turned to what he knows best: violent rage.

Me, too; and also the loss of the only outlets he has for tenderness and compassion. His comments to Claire about how he didn’t regret what he did to Jamie sounded to me like whistling in the dark; especially as he was saying them in the service of shielding Mary Hawkins from his darker angels. I interpreted all that - his trying to convince Alex to marry Mary, his beating of his brother’s corpse - as reaction to the loss of the only pure love in his life, that for his little brother. He cannot trust himself with Mary; he knows he’s a monster, and he’s weary, so weary, of being one.

What a great character - I’m going to really miss him when he’s gone.

I am so pleased Starz let Tall Ship Productions do a ninety minute show. There’s no way they could have told that story in sixty.

We got Roger singing, Bree being a brat (but understandably so,) Fiona making cow’s eyes at Roger, and the end of Culloden. Sam and Cait did an excellent job with the goodbye scene, and we got a famous line from the books, “You gave me a rare woman, and God, I loved her well!” Such passion. Yes, I cried.

I also laughed. When Roger is climbing up to Craigh na Dun and he says, “It smells like a fucking barbecue.” Heh.

Geillis/Gillian came across as a charismatic fanatic. Nice to see Lotte again too.

Sigh…now we wait, although I hear they start filming in September, so maybe Droughtlander won’t be as long this time.

Loved it. I’m completely book-free, so I had no idea what to expect. This time, I very well may get the third book and read it in advance.

Having watched the show through the first two seasons, would I be able to follow the third book pretty well?

You should, yes. There may be some character differences but they’ve stayed true to the books.

The next one is called Voyager and it’s my favorite.

I’ve started it and the opening 2 chapters are entirely followable, so I’m proceeding. Thanks.

I will be here for you. No spoilers, but keep an eye out for turtle soup. It’s not a major plot point, but my heavens.

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I can’t wait to find out.

One thing I didn’t get. Geillis/Gillian wrote in her notebook that a human sacrifice was necessary for the time travel. So how did Claire make the journey either time? And am I correct in assuming that if Claire returns, it will be twenty-something years later, so that as much time has passed for her has passed for Jamie?

  1. Geillis/Gillian was wrong about the human sacrifice. You don’t need it. She was right about the gemstones…they help you steer. It’s how Geillis was able to show up much earlier in the past than Claire did, although she left later. (The ring Jamie gave Claire that was his father’s had a cabochon ruby in it. If you remember in the first episode of the season, she still has the ring, but the ruby is gone.)

  2. Correct. So right now, Roger and Bree and Claire have to research history. If they can find mention of Red Jamie twenty years after Culloden, that corresponds to where Claire is now twenty years later in her future, and she could go find him.

Outlander’s been nominated for two Emmys, Terry Dresbach for Costume Design and Gary Steele for Set Design. None of the actors got a nod.

But I’m happy the show got two, and surely we’ll get more next year.

I really enjoy the series, but wish that “Dragonfly” was given more time. I don’t know whether it was my mood, or the way that S2 finale was shot, but their parting didn’t resonate as emotionally as their return to Craigh na dun in S1 (when Claire opted to stay).

I was amused to see that the Bree on film irritated me as much as the Bree in the books. :slight_smile:

Roger (series) wasn’t as handsome as depicted in the books. Of course, I had Pierce Brosnan in my head, so I suppose I was setting myself up for disappointment there anyway.

I liked “Voyager” a lot except for JarJar, er, Mr. Willoughby. :slight_smile:

Ludicrous.

Caitriona Balfe should have won the Emmy for the episode “Faith”, which was the finest episode of television I’ve seen in a few years. Absolute robbery.

Quoted for truth.

And did anyone else think Roger was uncannily like a younger Ewan McGregor?

Agreed. Still, they get buzz when they’re snubbed too. I haven’t seen Mr. Robot, so I don’t know how good a show that is.

Bree is a bit of a brat, but I think it’s understandable. She finds out her mother disappeared for three years, came back pregnant, and has this delusion she got pregnant by a man from the 18th century. Stands to reason she’d be a bit irked.

I did love Roger being the voice of reason. Lovely singing voice too.

Reading Voyager when I get a chance. I’m just to:

Jamie has met John Grey, the new prison ward. Jamie has just escaped prison. Claire has not returned to the past yet. She’s trying to locate him.

Enjoy!