Maybe he does. But what if he doesn’t? I think any approach that starts entertaining those thoughts is unhelpful. I don’t see any reason to err on the side of he may deserve his guilt. What possible benefit could that bring? I am not an expert in any of this so perhaps I am wrong.
Wait, I know the twist at the end! We’re all uncaRay’s “friend”, and we need to snap out of this delusion!
Can we cut UncaRay a modicum of slack? He came here for help for his friend, and whatever you think about Truthers, please review what he explicitly stated:
I disagree, I have a strong sense of right and wrong, but, your comment does give me pause to stop and reconsider my own opinion…
Like I said, I don’t think he feels guilty at all accept that he survived when good men standing next to him didn’t. He didn’t shoot any children or unarmed civilians like some soldiers he knew. He went there to defend America. He was told Saddam had WMDs and was preparing to use them on mainland USA. He followed orders.
Agenda?
you were replying to me? i don’t think IMHO (in my humble opinion) is the place to say my true comments. i can say i disagree, quite strongly, with the just following orders explanation. politicians regularly send people to war for the wrong reasons. everyone knows this. they know this when they sign up.
Hey UncaRay,
In all, I suspect that the kinds of answers you get from any internet message board are going to pale compared to the kinds of help your friend can get from the VA PTSD.
I won’t dishonor your friend by presuming to have any idea of what he experienced or did. I’ve never served and all I know about war is from documentaries a movies like Black Hawk Down, but I do have a lot of respect for anyone who signs up to go in harm’s way on behalf of his or her nation.
It is perfectly understandable that he would feel betrayed when it came out that Iraq WMD rationale was bullshit. But from the earliest days of our history, leaders have been sending soldiers off to fight, kill, and die for ideology and power. Sadly, Bush’s bullshit about Iraq WMDs is just the most recent examples of conflated bullshit that stretches back beyond the Gulf of Tonkin (Vietnam War) and the USS Maine (Spanish-American War). It can be tough when a patriotic kid realizes that his or her nation doesn’t always behave like the hero we were all taught it was growing up. Disillusionment is a bitch. But if it’s any consolation, for all of the unjustified bullshit the US is guilty of, things could be so much worse. Moreover, in Better Angels of Our Nature, Steven Pinker argues that the world has been enjoying a mostly-steady decline of violent deaths (here’s a TEDTalk summary — skip ahead to about 8:00 to look at wartime deaths).
Getting back to your friend, a soldier being thrown into any firefight in which the situation is often kill or be killed, is absolved of (most?) everything directly resolved to carrying out the mission. A soldier is the gun aimed and fired by the commanding officer, all the way up to the President. It’s how a soldier conducts him or herself beyond the specifics of the mission that is the point at which a soldier needs to take responsibility for the choices they make. Again, I don’t know what your friend experienced, so I can’t speak to that.
Again: the VA PTSD resources are probably the best equipped to help, and getting in touch with them may give you the best idea of how you can help your friend.
They’re referring to you being a truther. While very few on this board have no love for the Bush administration, I don’t know of many/any who subscribe to the conspiracy theories your groups put forth. I know I certainly don’t, but neither am I any kind of expert on the subject. If you stick around and pursue the topic with the board in new thread, I’m sure more informed can provide more informed food for thought.
if he never killed an unarmed civilian i have to say that it is much much harder to say he should feel guilty about anything though i still disagree with the war in iraq 100%
The only thing I’ll add is that you can’t make his choices for him but if you’re willing to listen, and he’s willing to talk, that alone can be tremendously helpful.
Well thanks all of you. He’s already going to the VA. I guess I’ll just keep my mouth shut and let them do their work. Maybe I worry too much.
It sounds like he has a good friend, at least. Good luck to you both.
I have read that EMDR is a good treatment for PTSD, if the VA does not have him doing this already, maybe you should encourage him to ask about for it.
Saddam Hussein was overthrown and the US does not have any of Iraq’s oil, so by his criteria he is a hero. He is not the only person to think so.
Bump
It appears the OP departed shortly after starting this thread ten years ago, but wanted to bump this question because public examples of cognitive dissonance seems to be on the uptick in recent years, and I happened to see a video this morning that purports to address the question ‘how do you proceed when trying to influence the opinion of someone (yep, even a smart person) experiencing cognitive dissonance’
How To Argue With Someone Who Doesn’t Use Logic (youtube.com)
The video features Jon Stewart demonstrating a master class on this when Bill O’Reilly was a guest.