Oxygen vs altitude question.

Factual Questions
21

Altitude sickness has been studied since WWII when bombers were not pressurized, but did have oxygen masks. Still, there is no conclusive evidence as to why some people get it and others don’t. Fitness is not the key, as some marathoners suffer from it and some less fit people don’t. Slow acclimation to climbing high helps, but still some people have it.

I’m lucky not to ever have any sysmptoms other than mild headaches. Most people at altitude above 12,000 feet find their appetite gone, and food all tastes like cardboard.

I have climbed all my life, and in my mid-70s did four 14ers in California, including Mt Whitney at 14,500 feet. I had three friends do the three-day hike, and at camp around 12,000 ft, two got so sick they had to go back down the next morning. The 24-year old guy and I went to the summit and back down the next day, with no ill effects. We were humping 40-lb backpacks too.

There are two serious forms of altitude sickness, HAPE and HACE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema and High Altitude Cerebral Edema), either of which can kill you. The only cure is to get the hell down to lower altitude as quickly as possible.

In my experience climbing many U.S. mountains, those prone to the problem usually begin to experience it between 10,000 to 12,000 feet. Sometimes it is mild enough to continue climbing, other times I have seen pretty fit people laying the ground, gasping like a fish out of water. It can also cause dizziness, nausea, disorientation, etc. If a severe headache or fits of coughing start, go to lower altitude immediately.

Climbing mountains like Mt Everest requires a series of going up to a higher camp for a day or so, back down to the lower camp, then back up a higher one, etc over a week or so until the last camp before the summit is reached. Then, if they are lucky in weather, they may or may not make the summit, but by then it is important to get back down as far as possible as quickly as possible.

22

Good info Klondike. As others have said. It depends. Altitude sickness seems to hit the young and old the worst.

My Wife and I are at 11,200. We have to be careful when we have guests. My 80 year old mom does fine. My 49 year old cousin can only come up for the day.

We had our wedding reception at this house and the wedding was at 12,500. Everyone seemed to do fine except two young nephews.

My Wife, after living at altitude for years spent 6 months in Alaska and then drove back up to the Colorado Mountains. This was before I knew her, but she got sick as a dog.

Neither one of us notice the difference any more. We travel to sea level pretty often, and I never notice the difference.

23

From what I’ve read and seen on tv, everyone (with the possible exception of Sherpas) suffers at least some permanent damage if they make the summit of Mt Everest.
I’m not mystified by sky divers, sky fliers, rock climbers, normal mountain climbers racers of any ilk, or participants any other high-risk endeavor. But I’m totally mystified as to why people do something that starts hurting one third of the way into it, and keeps on hurting for days (at least) after they finish. And probably leaves them with permanent damage. And they start off knowing all this. :confused:
I can’t honestly say I’m impressed.

24

Heck, I’m woozy right now.

25

And don’t forget, there is good chance you may die up there on the Everest heights. And rarely are the bodies ever brought down, so you stay in the deep freeze up there forever.

Sure, it’s loads of fun. You don’t have to be nuts, but it helps. That pretty much goes for all mountain climbing. What draws us? I don’t know, but since I was a kid, I never saw a mountain that did not strongly beckon me to climb it.

26

I consired death to be “permanent damage”. :stuck_out_tongue:
Not all climbing is as perilous as Everest, is it?
Witness Beck Weathers. I shake my head in wonder. I suspect a nut of death wish in Weathers and his ilk.
BTW; having a death wish doesn’t mean you can’t change your mind. From the story:

No shit! :eek:

27

There is an easy answer why people climb mountains: Not everyone’s greatest good is living longer, hurting less or being healthier.

I haven’t done any real mountain climbing. But even a casual stroll up to Uhuru Point was deeply satisfying for me, and soul-quenching well beyond simply avoiding all pain and all risk.
I have had the chance to speak with mountain climbers in the Himalayas. I’ve never met one who climbs to impress anyone.

28

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy a good trek as much as anyone. But all those extreme climbers will (and do) admit that enjoyment stops when the real suffering begins. What happens in the final stages of Everest is far from what happens on any other high risk endeavor. This is seperate from “why people climb mountains”.
I’ve also talked to climbers, mostly free climbers, and they surely do want to impress. They tend to brag a lot. Even to each other. My grand daughter and I were in the middle of a bunch of free climbers in Yosemite early one summer and they couldn’t shut up! Maybe that had something to with her being really cute. :wink: She was impressed, I must say. Okay, so was I.

29

I moved to just shy of 6000 feet a couple of years ago. The first few days I definitely noticed it running up and down stairs, but after that, I was fine. Last summer I went up the lifts to the top of the local ski mountain which is something like 9500 feet and definitely ran out of breath quicker than I do down here. If I’d been seriously hiking it’d have been a problem but I was just wandering going “Oooooh, pretty!” so I was fine.

Oddly, last August I flew for the first time since moving here, and realized that the air on the plane didn’t seem a bit thin and dry, but pretty much normal except that it didn’t smell lovely and fresh and glorious the way the air does here. (Sorry. I know. I love the air up here, though!)

30

Do flowers grow at 6000 feet? I honestly don’t know.

31

Most of Colorado is above 6000. Alpine wildflowers are a huge draw for tourism.

Suffering is part of life. Getting through the suffering to amazing highs is part of lots of activity. Being able to push through the pain involved in altitude, cold, lack of oxygen and getting to places few people have ever been, to see (or ski, or climb) amazing terrain is its own reward.

32

I live around 600’ MSL. Took a trip to Leadville CO a few years ago to work for a week at a dog sled kennel. Leadville is bout 10,500’ MSL. I had no ill effects. I am a smoker and was in serious active addiction at the time (lots of pot and booze) I guess I was just lucky cause the whole time up there I worked my ass off. The kennel was probably another 1000’ up in altitude.

33

Oh poo, Telemark, willful suffering isn’t “part of life” in the general sense your statement implies. Suffering is your caveman brain telling you to stop doing whatever it is you’re doing.
There’s a strong clubbish element to being one who attains the summit of Everest, and I’m sure it’s that, more than any amazing terrain they may well not even experience, which drives them on. And, of course, the challenge itself.

34

I live in Bogota, Colombia, altitude of 8678 ft. I have been here for almost 7 years now and I didn’t notice much difference when I came here from Miami. I had a little headache at first, but didn’t notice much difference with my breathing. Some folks get sick with “soroche” when they come here. That is altitude sickness. By the way, I am now almost 81 years old.

35

Old time mapping pilot here. Used to smoke and throw maps around at 14,000 MSL all day with no ox.

One day at 22,000 MSL we ran out of ox and I needed another 20 minutes to finish the job. Told ‘center’ that we had ran out of OX and I would make sense when we got lower, he said he’d keep’em clear and to hurry. We hurried and got’er done but I knew I was going to be able to think of only one thing so I took radio work out of the mix.

I have over sized lungs and had been going up to altitude almost daily so i know where my personal limits were and I was lucky. All this was long ago but if you knew what to watch for and how to work under those conditions, it could be done. For me at least.

36

Anecdotal, but I’m from Michigan (about 700 feet) but currently living/working in Mexico City (the plant is at 7400 feet). Physical exertion here takes a while to get used to after being at a lower elevation for a while. I get winded climbing the stairs, which isn’t normal for me. But within a week, I’ll be okay, until I go to an even higher elevation (say, the volcano in Toluca).

The most noticable difference to me is in how the car behaves as different altitudes. We recently just got back from a multi-week road trip (vacation) that had us driving from sea level to over 11,000 feet.

37

The flowers may not be around for very long each year, but oh yes, there are lots of flowers from here and on up higher. 6000 feet isn’t really all that high.

38

I looked up the treeline in Colorado (12,000 ft). I think some flowers could go maybe even higher. I know some plants are hardier (because they renew each spring) than trees. California poppies grow to 10,000 feet or so.

39

Indeed, it’s normal to (in season) see wildflowers above the tree line.

40

A few more data points:

I am a lowlander (<100’ above sea level), a jogger, and a pilot.

On vacation in Denver (5,280’) last Fall, I was able to do my regular jog with noticeable but not crippling effect.

In an airplane above about 8,000, I definitely feel the effects on brain function. IIRC, the Coast Guard requires oxygen for crew members above 10,000 (if above for more than 30 minutes) and for everyone above 13,000.

At Mt. Evans’ Summit lake (12,000’, same vacation) I raced the kids from the lake back to the car, about 50 yards. We made the run just fine but then spent 15 minutes panting to try and catch our breath afterwords.

At the summit of Mt. Evans (14,000’, but we drove up the first 13,800’), I climbed the last 200’ twice and definitely felt the effects in brain and belly. I would not have felt comfortable driving or operating heavy machinery until more oxy-bits found their
way to my brain.