P-51 Mustang loses canopy, pilot choses to continue for > 400 km - unusual or not?

This report (German language) about wreckage from a vintage fighter aircraft hitting a fast food stand in Münster, Germany looks curious to me: according to the report the pilot did not land but continued to Berlin where he apparently was to participate in the IAA airshow - a distance of almost 500 km. Apparently he didn’t even report the incident to air traffic control but parked his aircraft at Berlin-Schönefeld and walked away.

Wikipedia quotes a cruise speed for one type of that aircraft type of 362 mph/580 km/h and a stall speed of 100 mph/160 km/h. I’d feel very uncomfortable driving a convertible at 160 km/h let alone much faster.

So, would flying a WWII era fighter plane to one’s destination without a canopy (assuming appropriate protective clothing) be considered foolhardy or normal procedure?

Wikipedia is nuts. Normal cruising speed is probably around 230 mph indicated and the pilot could easily slow down to 150 or so. In addition, the pilot is behind a windshield. There would be a lot of noise and some turbulence behind the windshield but I don’t see much danger as long as the canopy didn’t damage the tail assembly upon departure.

As far as I know from reading accounts of famous naval battles, P-51s were often flown with the canopy open for extended periods on search or patrol. It made it much easier to scan the ocean surface (visibility, especially to the sides and rear was a problem until the -d and -K variants). of course my recollections may be colored by movie depictions of questionable accuracy. We have no way of knowing if the pilot was wearing a pilot’s leather cap and goggles in addition to the pilot’s leather jacket shown in the pictures.

Aircraft are designed with more emphasis on aerodynamics than convertibles (especially the P-51, which was the first to use laminar flow wings). A convertible’s windscreen is a potent spoiler flap, generating a great deal of turbulence. The P-51 probably directs more air smoothly over the cockpit. BTW, the person shown in the photo is seated in the rear seat, not the front seat that would have been occupied by the pilot.

And though I’m no expert on historical combat aviation, I am a private pilot, and know that manny ex-combat pilots have a rather macho "can do’ attitude.

The fastest I’ve ever taken my convertible with the top down (not necessarily a public road, I plead the 5th) is 112 MPH (which is 180 kph). I wouldn’t say it was uncomfortable to any degree. I think with a convertible car you should be fine to around 240mph (just a WAG) before it gets way too loud. Of course they don’t make convertibles that go 240mph or anywhere near that, but still I don’t see the problem.

How fast do you think motorcycle racers go? If I remember correctly MotoGP is usually around 300 - 320 km/h, and that’s on a motorcycle wearing a protective suit and a helmet. You know, without an airplane around you.

Douglas Bader was well-known for popping the canopy open and lighting up his pipe when returning from a mission.
My understanding was also that it isn’t much more of a deal than driving really fast with the sunroof open or riding a motorcycle with a fairing - the windscreen directs the airflow around the immediate cockpit area so the pilot isn’t taking the full force of the airstream.

Depends upon the circumstances.

If the only damage is a lost canopy and the pilot is fully in control of the airplane there really is no reason to land immediately, or even urgently. In fact, a too-rapid dash towards the illusive safety of the ground may precipitate mistakes and further problems.

I am not particularly conversant with warbirds of any era, but at the airport I’ve been frequenting this past year I do see some types flying about with open canopies on ocassion with no apparent problems, so certainly it’s not an issue for many.

You actually don’t need the leather cap and googles, although eye protection is recommended. Aside from the prop potentially kicking up debris from the ground, which will hurt like the dickens if it dinks your eyeball, the wind tends to dry out the old peepers and can make it hard to focus. This not only complicates navigation, it makes landing an adventure, too.

Lets not deal with recollections. Let’s see some evidence. Here is a picture of me prepping for an actual open cockpit flight last October. Coincidently, although that is not a P51, it is an airplane of roughly the same time period. That is all the headgear I wore, and nothing more - just a headset and some sunglasses that wrapped around somewhat. The flight lasted about an hour and a half, speeds in the 80-110 mph range (130-180 kph, roughly). I found the windshield - small as it is - did a fairly good job of shielding me from the airstream, propwash, and the odd glob of flying engine oil. I wasn’t aware of just how good until I leaned over the side while trying to get a cool in-flight picture, at which point I almost dropped the camera out of an airplane again (which is why the camera has a sturdy leash). The sunglasses - small as they are - provided adequate protection for the old eyeballs. Most of the air-pummeling I received was from air washing off the top wing, which, of course, is not an issue in a low-wing monoplane such as the P51. I could have easily tolerated higher speeds than what we actually encountered on that flight. Judging from the the picture of the P51 in question, I’d assume that the remaining windshield provides at least equivalent, if not better, protection from the airstream.

In other words, some bareheaded old fart with nothing more than sunglasses (and he can probably do just fine without those) could pilot a P51 sans canopy without significant physical discomfort. There would be more drag on the airplane, so the top cruise speed would be less than normal, it would be windy, and it would be a little chilly. That’s it. I do stuff like that for fun, and I’m a nothing-special over-40 little-girl deskjocky. A big ol’ ballsy guy pilot shouldn’t have any problem with it either.

Honestly, I felt much more beat up on a motorcycle doing 50 on the road than I felt doing twice that in an open cockpit airplane.

Well, I wouldn’t either - it’s not like ATC can do anything about debris on the ground. If it seriously affected my airspeed or an estimated time of arrival I might, because that’s relevant to flight traffic. The people I’d notify would be a mechanic (for repairs) and possibly my lawyer if the bits fell on someone who felt inclined to sue. Well, if the debris hit and then the object it impacted burst into flame I might call ATC so they could notify the local fire department, but I think in those circumstances (emergency and all) I might just fire up the cellphone and call 911 myself.

Of course, I’m talking about the US, where a lot of the time you don’t have to deal with ATC at all as a private pilot, if you choose not to. I have no idea what the regulations are in Germany, or what they might require of a pilot in a airplane shedding parts.

I’ve flown open cockpit planes, planes with sliding canopies, and I even flew in a P-51 Mustang before (with Bob Hoover, WWII Ace, backup pilot to Chuck Yeager for the X-1, envy me!)

And frankly as long as the windshield is intact in front of the pilot, I don’t see a big problem with it.

broomie, you’re in a Stearman! Yay!! (Wish I still had mine. But it was that or college for the kids.)

There are small planes that are designed to be flown either way (Grumman Tiger) and I’ll go out on a limb and say it is likely that the a combat plane like a P-51 is designed to do just that in case it becomes a necessity.

I’ve flown our Grumman AA1 with the canopy open. No big deal, although if you open it past a certain point it will cause enough of a suction inside the cockpit that it’ll cause you to lose any lose papers you might have out.

WWII fighters were often flown with the canopy open, especially in the South Pacific where it was really hot. Also, those old fighters were very difficult to taxi because of the taildragger gear and the big engines up front, so the pilot would keep the canopy open so he could look out the sides a little better.

‘Pappy’ Boyington was famous for rolling back the canopy on his Corsair so that he could smoke in the cockpit. The other ‘Black Sheep’ said that they always knew when they were about to engage the enemy, because they’d see Pappy flick out his cigarette and roll the canopy closed.

That said, if I lost a canopy completely, I’d put the airplane on the ground as soon as possible. For two reasons - one, you don’t know what the canopy might have hit on its way off the airplane, and two, the airplane may be designed to be flown with the canopy open, but that doesn’t mean it was designed to fly with NO canopy. The open canopy is still part of the structure of the airplane - the airplane was tested for things like flutter with the canopy on the fuselage. Removing it completely constitutes a pretty significant change in the shape of the fuselage.

Also, you don’t know what it’s going to do to your range, so if you are flying a distance where range becomes an issue, don’t push your luck.

So, the consensus is that flying open-canopy in a P51 is not a physical impossibility, or even uncomfortable.

That leaves the only area for debate the wisdom of flying with a definitely damaged aircraft vs. landing as soon as practical.

As a fighter pilot who’d once fought in the Pacific once said to me “The Corsair didn’t have airconditioning!”.

I heard stories of pilots opening the canopy and firing their service pistols and Japanese planes, too (just to prove a point)- but I can’t imagine how that would be especially practical or even expedient until much later in the war…

Well, seems to me that there wouldn’t be a need to land IMMEDIATLEY unless the plane immediately showed signs of a problem. As a previous poster said, getting into a sudden hurry to find a place to land and put the plane down could result in other more serious problems, many related to the pilot just no longer being in his proper state of mind for flying. There would probably be a few minutes of just checking to see how everything was working (taking into account anything he might need to be looking out for where he is flying, such as radio towers, other traffic, etc.) after the canopy made it’s exit, and depending on the local laws, it might be a good idea to report that you lost part of your plane, or at least to mark on your map where you lost it so you can go back to look for it later.

Once in our Fairchild PT-26 (WWII vintage trainer for the WWII fighters) I slid back the canopy and tossed part of an uneaten hot dog out. We were over a woods in northern Wisconsin, so I don’t think anyone took damage. I woudn’t have thrown the hot dog at another plane, though. :wink:

Unconscionable. Have you no thought for the health of the wildlife eating it? My uncle was a game warden up in Burnett County and I’m sure he wouldn’t have approved.

Hey! It was a kosher hot dog!

Yay!

Of course, at current prices I don’t get to to do that very often…

Oh, Qadgop… did your kids really need to go to school…? :stuck_out_tongue:

If you get really itchy I can tell you where I rented that one and you can get a quick fix. (Please don’t feed the local CFI’s, even with kosher 'dogs. Their eating habits are deplorable enough.)

My sister got to ride with Bob Hover once.

I hate you both now…

*:: If it ain’t flutterin or shakin, don’t be in a hurry to make it start. :: *