Paid-For ID's and Poll Taxes.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Projammer

Dunno. But I did somehow miss that.

OTOH, if I hadn’t asked we wouldn’t have gotten Little Nemo’s excellent analysis of the question.

The page I linked to also has some interesting context:

The nominal amount of the taxes wasn’t very much, then or now. Alabama, Texas and Virginia set theirs at $1.50 per year, or $11.27 in today’s dollars; Arkansas had the lowest tax, $1 (or $7.51 today), while Mississippi’s was highest at $2 ($15.03 today). But the taxes were more onerous than they might appear. In Virginia, Alabama and Mississippi the taxes were cumulative, meaning a person seeking to vote had to pay the taxes for two or three years before they were eligible to register. Often only property owners were billed for the taxes, and the due dates were several months before the election. Virginia, Mississippi and Texas allowed cities and counties to impose local poll taxes on top of the state charge. And in some jurisdictions taxes had to be paid in person at the sheriff’s office, an intimidating prospect for many.

Also, as voting historian J. Morgan Kousser noted, the taxes had to be paid in cash, at a time when many black southerners had extremely low cash incomes: “**ecause sharecroppers, small farmers, factory workers, miners, and others bought most of their necessities on credit, they might not see more than a few dollars in cash during a year. To such men, who composed majorities or near-majorities of the adult male populations of every southern state at the turn of the century, a levy of a dollar or two might seem enormous and a cumulated poll tax, impossibly high.”

[Little_Nemo]

Another factor was that a poll tax had to be paid in advance of the election. This added an additional step to voting, which served as a disincentive. But more importantly, it showed very clearly who intended to vote. A person might stay on the registers year after year without actually voting. But a person who was willing to pay money was somebody who clearly was going to show up on Election Day.

And that made it easy to target people if you didn’t think they should be voting. You could organize a mob to threaten these potential voters into backing down and agreeing to stay home of Election Day. This allowed you to get all the violence and intimidation completed before hand, so you could have a nice quiet Election Day and maintain the public illusion that you were conducting a free election.

[Cabin_Fever_1]

@Jim_B

In case you don’t know, the 24th Amendment to the US constitution forbids poll taxes. In other words, the federal government and states cannot make you pay to vote.

Then more recently in Michigan where I live, I heard a bill in the Michigan legislature is going to allow people to register to vote online. Only stipulation is you have to have a driver’s license or state ID.

Now I don’t know if this requirement applies to other forms of voting in Michigan. But I have heard anecdotal stories about other states. In fact there was this one story a military man tried to vote in one state using his military ID. And they said No.

Now drivers licenses and state ID’s aren’t free. They both cost money. My question then, is do they violate the twenty-fourth amendment? Certainly at least in spirit?

Mind you, am not trying to ride my moral high horse. I’m just wondering.

Thank you in advance for your kindly and civil replies:).

:):)

I recently relocated back to Michigan. (Admittedly about four years ago.). I had to renew my MI ID, cost me $10 USD for the service and a dreadful picture of which I am embarrassed to show anyone.

I got to register myself to vote for free at the time. My voter card came in the mail a few days later. I haven’t voted in any kind of election for thirty some years, but I plan on doing it come November. By the way, you can walk into any Secretary of States office and register to vote. No charge, no problem, they will be glad to help.

[Hey_Hey_Paula]

@Cabin_Fever

I recently relocated back to Michigan. (Admittedly about four years ago.). I had to renew my MI ID, cost me $10 USD for the service and a dreadful picture of which I am embarrassed to show anyone.

I got to register myself to vote for free at the time. My voter card came in the mail a few days later. I haven’t voted in any kind of election for thirty some years, but I plan on doing it come November. By the way, you can walk into any Secretary of States office and register to vote. No charge, no problem, they will be glad to help.

It’s not just the cost of the ID that can be a problem, it’s the cost and ease of getting the underlying documents that can be prohibitive. I don’t live in a state with strict voter ID laws, but just as an illustration: I’m going to get my ‘Real ID’ next month. For that I need my birth certificate, my marriage certificate, and a document to prove residence, like a house deed, lease agreement, or utility bill.

I have all those documents, though it took some digging to get my hands on them. If I didn’t have them, it would be $28 to get a certified copy of the birth certificate, plus $10 to a notary because I’d have to get the application notarized. Marriage certificate, another $28. That’s almost $70, which can be a huge chunk of change to someone living on a super tight budget. I only work part time, by choice, so I don’t have to take time off work to go to the DMV - but to someone who can’t afford to take time off work, and their local office has no weekend or evening hours? Thats another hurdle they see no way of getting over. It’s not always as simple as some people seem to think it is.

[Munch]

Michigan offers free IDs to anyone that can present evidence of receiving state benefits.

[Joey_P]

@Icarus

I’m struggling to understand how any of these requirements are enforced for mail-in / absentee voting? Any ideas about this?

I just did an absentee ballot. When I requested it online, I had to upload a picture of my ID, then they mailed me a ballot.

[Hari_Seldon]

Hey Hey Paula has it right. I have read that many states make it very hard to get an ID. Just add one more problem. Many of the state MV bureaus are hard to get to if you don’t have a car.

I have been voting since 1959 and have never been asked to provide proof of citizenship. You can argue that I should have been, but I never have. For the past 50 years I have voting absentee from IL (federal offices only) and had only to certify that I was a citizen. The number of non-citizens who have ever attempted to vote is negligible and always has been.

In Canada, ID is necessary, but everyone has a Medicare card. I don’t know if truly indigent people get theirs for free, but the cost is relatively small. I register to vote in Canada when I fill out my income tax law. There is a question, are you a Canadian citizen and if so do you want to register to vote. No proof requested.

[Railer13]

@puddleglum

Don’t all states that have voter id laws also provide id cards for no cost or if there is a cost waive the fee is the person asks?

@Bricker

I don’t know of any that do not.

Kansas requires presenting a government-issued photo ID at the polls before one can be issued a ballot.

If you don’t have such an ID, you can get a state-issued ID from any DMV office. You need to present a birth certificate, valid social security identification, and proof of residence. There is a fee for this card of about 20 bucks.

You can request a fee waiver, but the waiver applies only if you don’t already have a valid photo id. For example, two years ago my then 95-year-old Mother decided she no longer desired to drive. I took her to the local DMV to get the state-issued ID card. During the process, she surrendered her driver’s license. But because she had the driver’s license, she was required to pay the fee. Obviously not a big deal, but she had to pay the fee before she got the ID card.

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

@Railer13

Kansas requires presenting a government-issued photo ID at the polls before one can be issued a ballot.

If you don’t have such an ID, you can get a state-issued ID from any DMV office. You need to present a birth certificate, valid social security identification, and proof of residence. There is a fee for this card of about 20 bucks.

But that Certified Birth Certificate costs $15 (plus $1 postage). So now we’re up to $36.

Then you need your Social Security card. If you can’t find that, you can get a replacement for free. But it takes a couple weeks or months.

And then proof of residence.

Note that you have to travel to 3 separate offices to get these documents, and it can take weeks to get them. Then make copies, and travel to a fourth location to present them. All in all, not a simple procedure at all – lengthy & time consuming. Not a way to encourage voting, rather a discouragement. (But that was the purpose of this law in Kansas.)

[Munch]

@Tim_T-Bonham.net

But that Certified Birth Certificate costs $15 (plus $1 postage). So now we’re up to $36.

That’s free as well, but it’s still more paperwork to go through.

[Gatopescado]

@Tim_T-Bonham.net

Here in Minnesota, vote-by-mail ballots come with a postage-paid return envelope.

Perhaps one of the reasons Minnesota has the highest voter turnout in the whole country.

Well, that and there’s nothing else to do in Minnesota.

[Railer13]

@Munch

That’s free as well, but it’s still more paperwork to go through.

According to the link, in order for one to be eligible to receive a free birth certificate (so one can get a free photo ID so one can vote in Kansas), one must be registered to vote in Kansas.

To qualify such person must (1) not possess any documents listed as valid photographic identification documents under Kansas law (see below), (2) lack any of the documents necessary to prove identity; (3) be registered to vote in Kansas, and (4) have been born in Kansas.

Sigh.

[Munch]

@Railer13

According to the link, in order for one to be eligible to receive a free birth certificate (so one can get a free photo ID so one can vote in Kansas), one must be registered to vote in Kansas.

You can register to vote online - you don’t need an ID to do that.

[pdhenry]

@Tim_T-Bonham.net

Then you need your Social Security card. If you can’t find that, you can get a replacement for free. But it takes a couple weeks or months.

In many/most states you can request a replacement Social Security card online (which requires that you have access to some sort of computer, I guess). My wife just ordered one so she can get a Pennsylvania RealID. I also live in Pennsylvania but (possibly because my SS# was issued in New England) I had to visit the local Social Security office, which is mostly or entirely open during “working hours” when some people might be under a burden to be there.

The issue of “cost” is greater than the monetary cost mod the required ID.

[Railer13]

@Munch

You can register to vote online - you don’t need an ID to do that.

Not really, according to the state’s website:

To register to vote online, you must have a valid Kansas driver’s license or non-driver’s identification card.

It does go on to say that if you don’t have one of these documents, you can register by printing out a form, filling it out, and mailing it to the local county official. But that’s not exactly registering online.

[DavidwithanR]

@Hari_Seldon

Hey Hey Paula has it right. I have read that many states make it very hard to get an ID. Just add one more problem. Many of the state MV bureaus are hard to get to if you don’t have a car.

I have been voting since 1959 and have never been asked to provide proof of citizenship. You can argue that I should have been, but I never have. For the past 50 years I have voting absentee from IL (federal offices only) and had only to certify that I was a citizen. The number of non-citizens who have ever attempted to vote is negligible and always has been.

Nobody who is in a country illegally is going to stick their neck out so far as to choose to show up on purpose at a place where they’re going to look you up and check your ID.

So, I have a “modest proposal”. Voter DE-registration. If (by 60 days prior to the first day it’s possible to vote) the government has not shown cause why you should be turned away, then you are automatically entitled to vote. (You still have to show your ID, but the list in front of the election worker shows who CAN’T vote - and if you’re not on the list, then you’re a voter.)