Made the final payment in March. Lender sent notification to the county.
I called the county because I have not yet received the deed in the mail. Found out they do not automatically send them out but I could request one from their website.
Off to the county website. Did the free search (which only lists documents, does not show actual document) and found that they received the release.
If I want to request a copy, though, I have to pay not only for the document but also for the usage of the site.
The lender is going to send me notification that the loan has been paid off and the county notified.
Do I need the actual deed? If not, what happens if I want to sell?
The piece of paper the deed is printed on is worthless. Anyone could print out a counterfeit deed with a little bit of effort. The thing that has value is the entry in the county’s record system that says you are the home’s owner.
This is comparable to saying “do I need to print a deposit slip from my bank”. If you print out a deposit slip saying you have 10 grand in the bank, and the bank thinks otherwise, they aren’t going to believe you if you show them the printout.
With that said, institutions screw up their records all the time. Having a tangible paper copy of the deed might be useful if the county records office ever burned down one day. Having the “receipt” for an asset that costs this much is something you might want to have on hand. How expensive a fee does the county charge?
This relates to the discussion on squatters rights in recent threads. Many jurisdictions have gone to a computerized land ownership registry system. Whatever’s in the registry is the official word of the government on who owns the property. having a copy is no more useful than anything else.
IANAL, but it seems to me that if it ever came to a legal dispute, the most important records to have on hand would be the paperwork from when you bought the house, and the paperwork from the bank showing that they are satisfied you have paid off the mortgage in full and it is no longer a lien (or whatever the term) on your ownership.
there was a court case in Ontario, for example, about a decade ago. Someone owned their house outright. A person impersonating the owner went to a bank, obtained a mortgage, and disappeared with the cash. The court ultimately said if the legislature had intended for fraud to be an exception to the registry being the ultimate and correct reference, they would have added that to the legislation, and the owners were responsible for the fraudulent mortgage.
that issue has since been corrected, and anyone updating the registry has to show good proof of identity.
When I paid off my mortgage, the bank sent me all the deeds that had been issued since the house was built in 1942. I was surprised. I imagine that when I sell it, the buyer’s mortgage company will want all those deeds, plus the one I give.
It’s probably not a terrible idea to have a copy on hand (so if you ever do need you have it instead of having to go and get it), but more importantly, you need to get the lien release. I’d call the bank in 6-8 weeks and start nagging them if you don’t have that yet.
ETA you said March, you should have a lien release by now.
When I sold some property in Monterey county I had a copy of the deed in my desk. It was fun to read. When I sold the property it stayed in my desk dawyer.
When we bought our house in 1975, the mortgage company kept the deeds. When I paid it off in January this year, they sent me a package containing the details of all transactions relating to the house and the land it stands on going back to 1855. The plot, together with my three neighbours plots were valued at £4/10/6.
It was an interesting read, and I bought a safe to keep it in, as the land is not registered. I checked and they wanted to charge me for registration, so some future owner can deal with that.
Basically this. Your deed doesn’t mean much if someone else shows a later deed from you. Typically in the United States, home sales have two documents recorded in the county courthouse. Let’s say that I sell you property for $100k and you finance it through Big Bank. The deeds in the courthouse would look similar to this:
In 1998, John Doe sells subject property to jtgain.
In 2014, jtgain sells subject property to Habeed for $100k.
In 2014, Habeed grants a deed of trust (or sometimes a mortgage) on the subject property to Big Bank for $100K.
If you try to sell the property, a diligent buyer will see that Big Bank needs paid off before paying you any money in order to get clear title.
Now, that you’ve paid off Big Bank, it should issue a “Release of Deed of Trust” to file in the courthouse which would then add to the chain of title. Now, a diligent buyer sees that you own the property outright.
You can get a copy of your deed for your records if you like, but as you see above, it only proves that at one point in time you owned the property.
I’ve paid off a couple of propertys over the years. Every time I did the lender would send a copy of the deed (acquired from the county) in addition to a satisfaction of mortgage certificate.
This is not true. A counterfeit deed can be recorded, too. The significance of the deed to the OP depends on whether his state follows a title theory or lien theory for mortgages, because if it’s the former he doesn’t own the house until he receives the deed from the bank. If it’s the latter he should already have the deed.
I think we are saying the same thing but from different sides. Yes, a counterfeit deed can be recorded as well, but that has no bearing on whether a paper deed in a person’s hand means anything.
I have a deed to my home from Seller to Me dated August 1, 2010. Is that proof that I own the property? Absolutely not. There could be a subsequent deed where I have sold the property. I may have never recorded this deed so it will be invalid to anyone in the world who pays or has paid money for the property without knowledge of my deed. All the deed proves is that I owned the property at one point in time.
As for title v. lien theory, I am willing to be corrected, but I don’t think it matters as far as the recording laws are applied. The Deed and subsequent Deed of Trust and/or Mortgage are still issued and recorded in the same manner. The only difference is the case law which decides who the true owner of the property is at a given point in time.
In lien theory states the mortgage holder sends you the cancelled note (or possibly just a letter saying the note has been cancelled). There is no deed because you owned the property all along, notwithstanding the lender’s interest. In a title theory state the lender is actually deeding the property to you when you pay off the note.
No, the deed doesn’t necessarily prove that you own the property. But it proves that you have a superior claim to the lender, which is what the OP should be worried about.
Yes, that is legally the vehicle through which it is done. However, I have owned homes in a title theory state and a lien theory state and this is simply done in the wording of the deed and is largely transparent to a home owner who is not versed in the law. The recording process operates in the same manner. The legal theory is only important in litigation and on Bar exam answers where hypothetical purchasers never record deeds and put ridiculous condition subsequents in their conveyances.
I disagree with your last statement that the deed proves that you have a superior claim to the lender. That’s not at all true in a lien theory state, and it may not be true in a title theory state. I could have taken a home equity loan out on my fully paid-off home subsequent to that deed.
That’s Canada’s Torrens system which is not the law in any US state I know of, with the possible exception of Florida, which allows a dual system. Illinois also allowed a dual system, but the Torrens Act was rescinded (in 1990, IIRC).
States vary as to the recordation or filing of deeds If a deed is recorded, you should receive the deed as soon as the county finishes processing it, or the lender receives it and will send it to you when the lien is satisfied. If the deed is filed, the county keeps it but you can receive a copy by request.
In Illinois, mortgages are liens on the land but do not vest title in the lender. The mortgage reads: “mortgages and warrants” or words to that effect. When the mortgage is satisfied, a “satisfaction piece” must be recorded to clear the title of that lien. However, Illinois also has “deeds of trust” (not to be confused with “deeds in trust”) and those do convey title. The instrument reads: “conveys and warrants,” just like a warranty deed. When that loan is satisfied, the lender must execute and record a “release deed,” which “conveys and releases” the land to the borrower.
The official record of Illinois, and probably most states, is the “chain of title,” as evidenced by the “grantor-grantee index,” but that is too cumbersome to be workable Those searching the records (lawyers, title companies, etc,) use the “tract books,” wherein each parcel can be searched by its legal description.
Recording of a deed gives constructive notice, but so does possession. So a BFP must not only have the records searched but must have a physical exam of the property to see if someone, perhaps a grantee of a deed who did not record the deed, is in possession. In the Torrens system, the owner with all the liens shown on the certificate is all you need.
I didn’t get any deeds or canceled notes when I paid off my mortgage. I did get a letter that I was clear, though.
I also took an afternoon off to make sure the documentation at the county courthouse correctly showed there was no longer a lien from the mortgage company and that I was the property owner. I got a copy of the deed while I was at it, though I already got one when I purchased the place.
Sure, but the point here is to prove that you paid off this loan.
Florida has never had a Torrens system in place, but there are quite a few states with current Torrens registrations: Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia, and Washington. I gather they are mostly localized systems though (and some are no longer accepting new Torrens registrations.)
