Pain, the opioid crisis, and my doc's suggestion for pain relief.

This post got out of hand and grew to a tl/dr status. If you just want the gist please scroll down to the last four paragraphs.

I am not entirely sure where to put this. I may get all wound up and angry again, and I could lose my shit and get sent to The Pit. I don’t want that to happen as I have a question or two that I would like to get opinions on, not just vent my spleen. Ready? Ready.

I am disabled, with multiple issues. I was living in Alaska when the majority of my issues were diagnosed. (Between November 1997 and June 1998 I went from a healthy woman living the subsistence life in the Alaskan Bush to a woman who felt sick, unbelievably tired, and everything hurt.) My doc back then gave me a script every month for hydrocodone (10/325) with the direction to take up to three a day for pain, as needed, and it worked like a charm. There were days I didn’t need any, some when I needed the prescribed three. I did not become addicted, I did not need more because of a tolerance build up. I was unaware of pain clinics at the time, but they were becoming a thing, and of course, the party people had to get on that bus, and come back to the island to trade/sell/share and drink, and guess what began to happen? Yep, people began to die. My doc got a visit from the DEA and after that, he had to refer me to a pain clinic in Anchorage. I spent the next six years bouncing from oxycodone and oxycontin, methadone, and morphine. It was a bad time in my life, and when my primary doc pulled me aside and told me to “Get the fuck off that shit or you are going to die” He never said anything like that unless he was truly concerned, and so I finished the scripts I already had filled and then quit. Yeah, cold turkey, and it was a bitch I never want to repeat. I had a physical dependency, and I was sick while going off of them. I have since used oxy’s after tooth extractions and surgeries since, but as soon as the pain backs down I stop, with no problem. I don’t have an addiction to pain meds of any flavor, and I can double down and tell you I know the difference between physical dependency and addiction because I am a cocaine addict. (It was never a terrible story, but I used it, I binged on it more than anything else with a friend on the weekends, although there was a short time (months) when I was using pretty heavily. I have been completely clean since February 5, 1995.) I have not had a steady pain script since 2006.

At the present, I am back in the Lower 48, northwestern Washington state. Since moving back I am now seeing the third doc at a local clinic, not because I am a bad patient but the first doc moved to Portland and the second changed his specialties. So now I have a new doc. I am slightly disconcerted that he is within the same age group as my own children (I asked, and he is at least younger than my oldest child; I am old. :frowning: )

I had my medical records sent down from Kodiak, I don’t know why I bothered. It’s obvious that none of the practitioners I have been seen by have cracked that file, and I am having to go from diagnosis to diagnosis, having to prove each individual issue I am living with, even though they have the results of all the tests they did in Alaska. I do have chronic pain, and while I have a fairly high pain threshold as I get older some issues are worsening, and in addition to disrupting my ability to do the things I do, there is some significant pain. I expect to have pain every day, that is just where I am now. However, when I can barely hobble to the bathroom and back to my bed, a light pain med (hydrocodone really does work best for me) would be a bit of welcome relief. This new doc has made it clear that he won’t be writing any scripts for pain meds, period. Fine. So I use cannabis. I am in a state where it is legal, and this doc encourages me to use it. Groovy. I guess that means I don’t need to be concerned with any UA’s.

I had an appointment with him last Tuesday, and even though I didn’t ask for any pain meds he launched into his “Pain meds won’t help in your condition. In fact, I just read a study that shows pain medication doesn’t help people with arthritis.” which broke my brain for a moment. I asked about spinal stenosis and degenerative disc disease, he said nope. I asked him just what, in his estimation, qualified as needing pain meds and he said "Well, if you were bedridden . . . " I lost my mind then, because I am, for all intents and purposes, bedridden. I force myself to get out and garden and go to the store and for rides into the country, singing with my kid but I pay for it with pain. He then said, three times, that I should go find kratom, “but you didn’t hear this from me, wink wink nudge nudge.” When I asked him where would I find it, in a health food store? He replied, “No, at a head shop.” :confused: I have read about kratom in the past, and it seems to me that there are just a few too many variables, and even on the website of the most recommended kratom there are no good dosing instructions. It seems sketchy as shit and I don’t know that it’s such a good idea to randomly pick a vendor and the color of the kratom leaf I desire, and then just play with the dosing.

The Opioid Crisis is all about getting the major druggies clean enough so they don’t die, but there are many, many pain patients who are suffering as a result. I guess I will be planting poppies this summer to augment the thc/cbd.

If you made it this far, thank you for reading, and do you have any opinions regarding this new doc? I have seen him three times, and I don’t know how comfortable I am with him.

I made it that far and I feel for you.

I’m surprised to hear a doctor recommend kratom. This is an MD, DO?

I’ve never heard of kratom.

I am so lucky to have never had to deal with a severe pain problem. The doctors I see won’t even give me sleep medicine for my chronic insomnia. Take a Tylenol and suck it up is their answer for everything.

All I can offer you are my sympathies and best wishes. See another doctor if this one annoys you. But I wouldn’t expect much improved help.

I think we had a kratom thread around here recently.

OP, I did read you. Sounds like a big ol’ ball of sucks. Glad the cannabis helps & that at least you don’t have legal issues obtaining it. Small blessing, but it’s something. (I assume you’ve tried different CBD levels along with THC?)

My sympathies.

Fuck doctors that treat your life like a word problem on an exam

Fuck doctors who think of what they’re going to say while you are talking

Fuck doctors who can’t be bothered to read your file.

Those fuckers make life harder than it should be.

There’s no effective check on this sort of lazy behavior in physicians.
You can’t even just shop around for a good Dr if there’re pain meds involved.
YAY! for doctors who use their training and imagination to figure out what’s going on in their patients’ live and how to improve those lives.
You guys effin rock!
You have my sympathy kaiwik

When pain meds are involved, it seems like you can get in trouble for seeking out a second opinion.

https://www.google.com/search?q=“doctor+shopping”

I’ve written recently here at SDMB that the pendulum has swung too far, and people for whom the benefits of opioids outweigh the risk are unable to get prescriptions for it. Prior to that, back in 2005 or so, I wrote a screed here condemning the overprescription of opioids, fearing that we’d be losing too many folks to overdoses and addiction. Seems I’m always out of step with the times.

The CDC even endorses the position that vulnerable folks are getting in appropriately cut off from opioids and has urged practitioners and medical systems and medical examining boards to revise their extreme restrictions and not just reduce/cut off everyone’s opioids reflexively.

And if your prescriber blames the DEA and says that they prevent her from prescribing opioids, they are either mistaken, lying, or have been sanctioned for inappropriate/illegal prescribing in the past.

The blame for the opioid epidemic lies mainly on pharmaceutical companies which misrepresented their opioid products, and the medical community which embraced “pain as the 5th vital sign”. JCAH also contributed, by insisting that hospitalized patients must have a pain control plan and be assessed about their pain level continuously, with documentation of that level PLUS the interventions taken to reduce pain. This group created a huge number of opioid addicts.

And far too many physicians are cogs in a machine who serve their health care delivery system first and their patients second. Those systems too often now mandate that opioid prescribing MUST be curtailed NOW. Comply or be disciplined/financially penalized/fired/reported to the Medical Board.

I even had to do battle with my own health care delivery system (for which I am a medical director). The Powers wanted to make it that we couldn’t prescribe opioids for longer than 3 days without committee approval or documentation of malignant pain. I fought and got that extended to 7 days, with the ability to refill 3 times after re-assessment without need for committee approval. A real triumph. :rolleyes:

There are good pain docs, good pain clinics out there, who still do prescribe chronic opioids as appropriate. But they are tough to find, and they are franky overwhelmed, and the majority of people fighting to be on their appointment schedules aren’t appropriate for opioids in the first place.

It’s a frustrating situation and the patients suffer and the doctors get cynical or burn out or are punished for trying to do the right thing. I’m pretty crispy myself at this point.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation, OP. I’m unhappy with what was done to you, rather than for you.

Holy shit, this country is going to hell.

I didn’t read the OP, but I will say that while doctor shopping can get you in trouble, that’s different than finding a new doctor because you don’t like yours or getting a second a opinion. Also, if your doctor isn’t doing a good job treating your pain, going to a pain clinic also wouldn’t be doctor shopping.
Now, if the OP went to his PCP one day, the next day he went to the ER and later on an urgent care and maybe another ER the next day, then set up an appointment with some other physicians, that would be doctor shopping. Even moreso if he got opiates from more than one of those docs and filled them at unrelated pharmacies.
It would be even more the case of doctor shopping if the symptoms weren’t the same each time or they were the very vague ‘my lower back hurts and I can’t sleep’ type of complaint.

I understand the fear of being accused of doctor shopping, but I don’t see that happening if you find a new doc or pain clinic for a second opinion.

And honestly, if the doctor is recommending Kratom, I’d run. The only reason I can see for that is that he thinks it will get you some relief while keeping the amount of opiates he writes to a minimum. I’ll bet that recommendation isn’t in your chart.
Okay, now I’ve read the OP. I’ll still suggest seeing a new PCP, but what about a Rheumatologist?
Also, if medical marijuana is legal in your state, a doc that tells you to go to a head shop and get kratom, may help you get a MMJ card. I don’t know if it would help you, but it’s not going to hurt.

Might I suggest you devote a significant portion of your gardening area to the cultivation of Papaver somniferum? Harvesting the raw latex is pretty low tech and you end up with a nice little ball of opium, which can be judiciously added to your cannabis intake or ingested orally–I suggest a little stevia leaf and mint to go along because it tastes like shit. You can also get dried poppy heads from ornamental flower companies and make tea from them. I’m willing to bet that, given your relatively low requirements for opioids that you could quite handily do an end run around your clueless asshole of a doctor and take care of your problem yourself. Plus, the flowers are spectacularly beautiful in and of themselves.

Fine idea, and when the police show up and search your backyard and find it chock full of scored opium poppies and then uncover your stash of raw, gummy bear black tar smoking opium and arrest you for illegal manufacture of narcotics with intent to distribute, you can show then this thread and all have a good laugh.

Very crazy… Too much overreach.

I have tried kratom, and it was like licking a norco. I also woke up sweaty, and the taste was bad… Try to find a strain called “L.A. Confidential” - it did wonders for me, but I built a tolerance in 3 days.

Cops don’t give a shit, it’s legal to grow poppies and to buy the dried pods and the fucking things grow wild all over Seattle in vacant lots. I’ve grown poppies for pain control myself for a good many years and never once even got a side eye, any more than I did growing cannabis plants out in the garden back before it was legal–it just takes a little bit of knowhow and ingenuity to basically camouflage everything to the point where nothing ever gets noticed.

Also, you don’t score the pods, you prick them with a pin because then it’s basically impossible to determine if it was done intentionally by humans or naturally by bugs.

I bet you’re really fun at parties.

Yeah, I’ve heard that a lot. :rolleyes:

I bet it would be totally fun and not-terrifying to explain this distinction in court. “Nuh uh, that’s a bug hole. Suck on that, G-man.”

If you are going to buy kratom, don’t buy it from a head shop. That stuff is overpriced and not that good. A good kratom vendor will sell it for $5 an ounce or less. A head shop will charge far more than that.

I feel your pain, OP. I get similar responses when I’m trying to get my ADD meds. You can see the look on their faces change when they decide you are a drug seeker, and it’s humiliating. I just want to be focused and productive, I’m not a college student cramming for finals. argh!

RE: Qadgop’s list, I would add that a lot of insurance companies (including one large HMO which shall remain nameless) find that prescribing pain meds is cheaper than treating problems. One HMO literally had no orthopedists at all. Internists were expected to treat everything from broken bones to slipped discs. They had only one spine specialist - a surgeon, for the entire DC Metropolitan area. If you didn’t need emergency surgery, then you were just out of luck.

But boy oh boy were they willing to prescribe opioids.

Seems like “Clueless Assholeology” is a new specialty these days. I always feel like I’m dealing with the Upsell Clerk at Jiffy Lube. To hell with their demographic “checklist.” Just give my damned allopurinol scrip and let me the hell outta there. I already know how tall I am, how much I weigh and what my blood pressure is.

I quit my pain meds after 18 years. I read that they actually prevent your body from healing itself and that they cause additional pain over time.

I have pain every day but it’s no worse now than it was when I was on pain meds. I don’t miss having to go to the doctor every month for a refill and being required to submit to a drug test. The runaround and hoops I was required to jump made it even worse. .
Best advice I have for you is to research the topic yourself so that you’re convinced rather than relying on what I’m telling you. It was a chiro on youtube saying the same thing that got me started. I felt overwhelmed at times with so much conflicting info I found online but so much of it’s bullshit. The chiro I found online explained how to filter out the bullshit and how to determine what info can be trusted. I’ve had bad experiences with chiros in the past and until last April, nothing has helped reduce my pain except for pain meds. I don’t want to be an advertisement so I won’t go on about the guy but I will offer you his youtube link so that you can check him out yourself. I don’t agree with everything he says but following his advice has offered me renewed hope and I hope you get the same benefit.
I’ve always believed that education is key.

I know how it feels to not want to get out of bed or not be able to and I know what total hopelessness feels like… but no matter what or how hard it is for you, it’s a must that you keep somewhat active.
I do believe the human body is intelligent and it’s been proven that our cells are capable of repairing themselves but there are so many things that contribute to your body not being able to heal itself… processed foods, sugar and medications all change your body’s physiology so that it is no longer able to heal itself.

Doctors don’t seem to cure illness but instead they treat symptoms caused by illness.

Sorry, I tend to ramble so I’m just going to cut off and offer up a link to one of his videos.

Dr. John Bergman here’s a link to a youtube video of his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d07GihNelEE"]Natural Solutions for Pain Relief - YouTube

ps I support use of CBD with THC (required to activate the healing properties of CBD)

Send me a message if you ever want to talk or compare info, experiences, etc.
Good luck to you.

You could always take diphenhydramine or doxylamine if you don’t mind being a zombie during the day. :frowning: