I’m trying to paint my spare bedroom to turn it into a combo office/den. I decided to do a two tone paint job a dark red on the upper part, and a dark green on the lower. Now since the room was bright blue before I did two coats of white primer. I masked off where the colors will split (34" up, I am putting in a chair rail.)
Now the shade of red that I decided on is from Behr. Sold by the home despot. So off I go to the home despot to get 2 gallons of paint. The HD guy tells me that the dark red will require a colored primer. The HD guy sings the praises of the colored primer. Virgins will weep if I don’t buy the colored primer. :rolleyes: Fine give me a can of colored primer. After all, we have to keep the virgins happy.
I come home and find that the “high Hiding” Ralph Lauren primer won’t hide shit. Now keep in mind that since I have furniture in the room, I am only painting 1/2 of it until I move the furniture. After you subtract doorways (1) closet doors (2), windows (2), and the bottom 34" of wall there is just over 100 square feet to paint before I move furniture.
I put on four coats of primer (the entire gallon) before the color looks even when dry. Fine I think, this RL paint is just shit. I move on to the Behr. Now the Behr is only one or two shades of red darker than the primer. I put a coat on, and let it dry. Looks like shit, I can see the primer bleeding though in places. I put on a second coat late last night, and let it dry over night. This morning same fricking problem.
So I drive back to the HD and buy the best (Purdy) roller cover they have, and I apply 3 more coats over the course of the day. I apply it per the instructions, and I apply it heavy. As heavy as I can.
I think that maybe when this coat is dry, it might be even. Of course it might not.
Now I have been painting rooms, and houses since I was a kid. I know (or at least I thought I knew) which end of the brush goes into the can.
Now I am beginning to wonder if I am not using a correct technique, or did I buy two gallons of the suckyist paint known to man?
Is red paint really that much harder to get even then other colors?
(And the reason for his thread in IMHO) What are your painting techniques?
I had the same problem trying to get a vivid red-- just stayed stripey and crappy and took coats and coats. Don’t know what to tell you.
I’m beginning to wonder if that’s the case.
I’ll estimate that since first moving in with my wife, I’ve done at least 20 rooms worth of painting (and that’s not counting the two years I painted for a living many years ago). Through all of that, I have never used Ralph Lauren paint, nor have I ever used colored primer. If I have to use primer, I’ve never found anything that a coat of Kilz2 won’t take care of. Maybe two coats, if you’re trying to cover day-glo green high-gloss paint (which I have done). Behr paint, on the other hand, rocks. I love that stuff.
I don’t care if you’re only going to paint one room in your entire life – buy a good paintbrush. If you spend five bucks on a five-pack of brushes, the result will be a shit paint job. Spend the 20 bucks on a high-quality Purdy brush. A 2.5" one is a happy medium if you only want to buy one. Buying a 2" slanted and a 3.5" flat edge is a better idea.
Same with the roller – spend the extra cash. It’ll make your life a lot easier.
When it comes to roller covers, however, I avoid Purdy. I used to get them, and they work fine, but one day I mistakenly sent my wife to pick up some supplies for me. However, she brought back a cheap 3-pack of Rubbermaid roller covers. I wasn’t happy, but figured “ah, hell with it…I’ll suffer through them”. Best damn roller covers I’ve ever found. Go figure.
Unfortunately, I’ve got to run, but I’ll try and pop back in over the weekend and toss out a few more tips. Hopefully, you won’t need them…good luck!
Now that your room is a half-inch smaller… 
Red is tough for some reason.
The last time we did a red wall, IIRC, it did take a tinted primer and three coats of the finish paint to look good. (And with that deep-tint base, it wasn’t cheap!)
Your RL primer - was that a stain/color blocker like Kilz or BIN?
Unless it’s really dry (eg: antihumid) there, trying to get on three coats in one day is probably a little too ambitious. I don’t have a can of paint handy to refer to, but usually, recoat times are along the lines of 12+ hours so the stuff has a chance to dry. Re-painting too soon can result in the underlying layers not drying properly and staying soft, showing brushmarks, and even lumping up or peeling off as you lay down another coat.
Finally a question I can answer! (I used to work as a dye tech for an industrial paint co)
Red is one of the hardest colours to paint. The chemicals used in any paint have to meet rather tough standards. They have to be permanent, they have to be durable (won’t wash off or “chalk” when dry, they can not chemically weaken the paint, and they can’t be toxic, and they have to hide.
We can make a red that covers well, but unfortunately, Mercuric Oxides tend to be a bad thing to introduce to your house/environment. We can make a red that covers well, but Organic reds derived from natural (ie plant) sources are not permanent and fade to browns/yellows rather quckly. We can make a red that covers well, but unfortunately the chemistry required would require a special base formulation for that paint (it couldn’t be teinted accurately in other colours). We could make a red that covers well, but the surface would be so delicate (from the huge amount of poigment diluting the binders in the paint) that it would show a mark if you touched it with your finger- ie no washability).
How to paint a room red.
- Get your primer pretinted. and prep very carefully (wash walls with TSP and water, then rinse with clear water). Pre prime any repaired areas (spackle).
Note- Pretinted primer will NOT be the same tone/strength of red as your top coats. It will probably be a hideous bubble gum pink.
Let your primer dry thouroughly (if the can says 4 hours, then give it 5
2) Prepaint your your corners, tops and bases. Feather in the inside edges with a roller.
let that dry the full time
- Use a roller in the “W” pattern, in 4 foot squares, moving from top to bottom, then roll down each 4X8 “strip”
Repeat until room is finished. let dry full time.
-
repeat steps 2 and 3
-
repeat step 4
Now let it all cure… Red pigments are transparent when even slightly damp… It can take 3-5 days for the “real” colour to emerge.
If it still looks streaky, repeat step 5
I hate red paint…
Regards
FML
First post in a long while, mostly because I’ve been busy with my new job, training and learning about all things…
paint.
Full Metal Lotus has covered about everything you need to know. The only thing I have to add is: have your primer tinted gray, not pink, for reds.
I, too, hate reds. Stunning when you get them right, sure, but the work required is usually only worth the effort of an accent wall. Barely.
Anastasaeon, Paint Slinger & Color Consultant. 
In order
Hal got a good brush, got a good roller. First several coats were with a 3 for $5 roller cover. In desperation I went for the Purdy.
I primed the blue walls with Benjamin Moore white primer. Completely hid the blue. So IOW I am starting with white walls. BTW the Benjamin Moore primer kicks Killz ass. Much better coverage.
gotpasswords Southern California very low humidity, and the A/C is set for 76 degrees. Label says dry in two hours, re-coat in 4. I was under that, but not by much.
FML I think you just made my subscription worthwhile. I am about 99.99% sure that you nailed the answer. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I’m gonna let this sit all weekend, and see how it look on Monday. I think for additional paint I will take the Behr chip to Benjamin Moore and ask if they can match it. I will for sure get their primer also.
Interesting that you found Behr to be good stuff, Hal-as my only experience was the exact opposite. I’ll guarantee paint jobs unless the customer provides some off-brand paint, which was the case when a lady wanted three new garage doors painted with Behr.
It took six coats to achieve a uniform appearance-a finished look that MAB SeaShore would have delivered in two, max.
I had a very similar (ie hellish 8-coat) experience with HD Behr red paint. The only good thing I can say is I found the streaks less & less prominent with each coat. Just repeat 1 or 2 coats per day until it’s close enough.
Thanks FML for a fine explanation by an expert.
I had a painter do my house, because while I’ve painted a lot I’ve never painted (or repaired) plaster, and I knew the red dining room I wanted was going to be a bitch and a half.
He used a colored primer that was a sort of eggplant color. Actually it was very pretty and he told me that a few clients have him just stop there and paint it that color! Anyway, the final red looks awesome. But then, I have a really good painter.
re: Grey vs red pretint for primer…
Rule of thumb is red pretint if covering lighter tone value (imagine a black and white photo of the wall) , grey pretint if covering an equal or “darker” tone value.
The “eggplant” pre tint is usefull as well, but it can add a blue-ish cast to top coats that are in the orange end of the red spectrum
and thanks for all the kudos
FML
I recently had the same problem at my new house. I hired a painter to do the painting because paint odors make me sick.
Anyway, the previous color kept bleeding through the red until I switched paints. The painter told me I should have gotten Sherwin Williams because that was the only thing that would work. He said I shouldn’t have bought such cheap paint. *
The Sherwin Williams brand paint worked. Once he started using that, it covered the color underneath. (Yes, he also used primer in the beginning.)
- I said, “Okay.”
I thought, "You stupid fucking idiot. First of all, this paint is NOT cheap. It’s very good paint and according to Consumer Reports, it’s the best. Second of all, you could have told me to get Sherwin Williams before I bought this other paint, you stupid fucking idiot.
This is a very educational thread. My own experience was with Deep Garnet paint about 7 years ago. It took 5 coats over brand-new builder white walls. Three years later when we sold the place, it took 2 coats of white primer and three coats of “hi-hiding” (yeah right) semi-gloss to cover it. I don’t remember what brands I used.
All of the walls in our current house are on the lighter end of the spectrum. I go with what keeps me sane.
I’ve discovered the same thing. If I get good Sherwin Williams paint, I need far fewer coats to get good coverage. Sure, it’s a little more expensive but you use less. Plus, the guys that work there really know there stuff and can give you great advice (as opposed to some of the horrible advice I’ve gotten at big box stores) and if you’te buying painting supplies, they’re not that much off of Lowes or HD and usually have everything in stock. (I all but stopped going to HD because they are always out of the one thing I was going for).
I read the Consumer Reports article too but then I browsed some painters and home improvement forums and pretty much all the professional painters seemed to recommend either Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore. They seemed to have little respect for HD brands. I respect CR but I think they’re off on some things. (for instance, they don’t think much of the Dyson vac but I’ve rarely met anyone who didn’t rave about 'em)
OK, so here is the 64,000 dollar question. The walls I painted had a white primer on them covering the blue completely. Then the red primer, then the color. Should I go with a gray primer for the other walls, or go with white/red primer/color coat for the remaining walls? I am afraid that if I go gray, the side of my room will be just a little “off” What do you think?
If I understood your question correctly, you should keep the primer types the same on all walls, assuming you are painting the same colour on all of them.
regards
FML
Here’s my good deed for the day (gleaned from my husband, who was a professional painter for seven years) - as you’ve probably figured out from this thread, if you’re going to paint any dark colour, start with asking a professional’s advice first. People always come to him after they’ve tried to paint dark, and five coats later it looks like hell, and there’s not much he can do for them at that point. You need to start with very good advice - primer colour, paint colour, and paint brand. Painting dark colours is not like painting light colours; as we’ve seen in this thread, it’s a science (or artform).
Here is an update for any who cares.
Yesterday I went down to the Benjamin Moore store with the Behr paint chip and my tale of woe.
The guy dinked with his computer for a moment and said that he could match the color.
I then told him about 1/2 of the room being more or less the correct shade of red, and the rest being blue, and asked about a primer.
He said that he could not tint a primer a dark enough red to be effective. Then he showed me a very cool visual aid. It was a piece of dark red acetate mounted on a card. When held away from the card it was very close to the color I was looking for. The card that it was mounted to had stripes of different color paint, white primer, pink primer, blue paint, green paint, and gray primer. When he lowered the acetate onto the card, you could see the effect of the undercoat color on the final color. Gray was the only one that did not do weird things to the red color.
He suggested a gray primer, and I should go over the walls I just painted with it, then the top coat. I took his suggestion.
The primer looks like they bought it from the Navy. It covers like the MIL spec for this color is: Coverage instructions: 1 battleship, use 1 gallon. This stuff rocks. It covers like a blanket.
I am going to let it dry overnight then I will try the color coat using FML’s instructions.
I will report back with the results.
Thanks to everyone for their help, if we meet at a dope fest the first beer is on me.