Pakistan - better check your spelling. And then check it again.

[Alessan]

Seriously, AK? You’re not going to admit that there’s something wrong with your country? Nothing at all?

[Enderw24]

@AK84

Yes, people are all experts on languages they do not know.

I never claimed to be an expert. In fact, I’m pretty sure an appropriate reading of my response would show I’m about as far from expert on the subject of Urdu as they come.

However, I will go on record as saying that I am an expert in not beating a kid in class, not firing a mom, not evicting a family and not sending death threats to a thirteen year old over a spelling mistake.

[John_Mace]

@Enderw24

It very well could be as simple as a single stroke. What you see in the picture in the article are two words that look very very similar. There are differences such as

1. an extra line in the middle
2. an elongated line at the end
3. a transposal of dots over the word.

So different, yes, but how different? We obviously can’t see what she wrote but I can easily imagine it to be a word without any dots above at all. I don’t know Arabic but I know Hebrew and in Hebrew you can write a word literally without any vowel markers which are above and below the word, trusting your reader to fill those in. If the same goes for Arabic, the dots may not have been in her word at all.
Then there’s the elongated line at the end. How elongated? Compared to what? It looks to be 100% of the length of the other lines but if it’s 50% of the length is it “praise” or “curse”

Only one way to know! That extra line. That’s the key.

So yeah, I could very easily imagine this entire thing happened because someone just learning Arabic put a single extra line in her word.

If you know how to read the Arabic alphabet, no, it’s not just a single stroke. And the language is Urdu, not Arabic. I don’t speak either language, but I do know the alphabet.

Anyway, I don’t know if it was a simple mistake, and of course it’s absurd what they did to her and her family, but the writer is being sloppy in describing the magnitude of the error.

[YogSothoth]

Wow, spelling bees in Pakistan are TOUGH! :eek:

[Kimstu]

@drewtwo99

Either way, Pakistan is a cruel, intolerant, woman-hating country.

While I definitely agree that Pakistani radical-Muslim fundamentalism is cruel, intolerant, and woman-hating, I think we should try to avoid tarring the whole country with that brush.

Did you notice that all the individuals and institutions quoted in the article as complaining about this incident were also Pakistani?

“We live in dangerous times,” one Lahore-based scholar told the Star recently. “The threat of someone accusing you of blasphemy is like the Salem witch trials. They kill you first and ask if you’re guilty later.” […]

“I protest against the decision of expelling the child and transferring the mother,” said Maulana Mehfooz Ali Khan, an Islamabad-based cleric. […]

Several English-language newspapers decried the case. Shyema Sajjad, a deputy editor with Dawn newspaper, wrote in a blog posting that Bhatti’s case is a reminder of the new realities facing Pakistanis.

“Tolerance and respect are two virtues that were kidnapped a long, long time ago, they remain missing even today,” Sajjad wrote.

@John Mace

If you know how to read the Arabic alphabet, no, it’s not just a single stroke. And the language is Urdu, not Arabic. I don’t speak either language, but I do know the alphabet.

Nitpick: technically, the Urdu alphabet is not quite the same thing as the Arabic alphabet, although most of the characters are the same, and Urdu is written in the same or similar script that Arabic uses.

Anyway, the Star’s depiction of those words looks typographically kind of weird to me. I found another Arabic-script instance of [naat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naat) (spelled nun, ayin, taa’) but none of laanat (spelled laam, ayin, nun, taa’), so I can’t show what the resemblance/differences would look like in more “normal”-looking type.

@Enderw23

If the same goes for Arabic, the dots may not have been in her word at all.

The same doesn’t go: in Arabic naskh and related scripts such as Urdu, dots are part of consonants, whereas (short) vowels are represented by small strokes, and are usually omitted in most text. The Star graphic shows no vowels on either of the pictured words.

[marshmallow]

The family wasn’t executed. Are they not merciful?

[Gary_Kumquat]

@AK84

1. The language in question is not Arabic, its Urdu. The national language. A language every student will know, years before they reach her class.

2. The words are quite differnent. Its not just a question of “longer lines” or “dots”. The offending word has 4 letters, while the other one has three, and with one letter being the second to last in the offending word, and the first in the other word and one additional word at the begining which is the “L” sound.

None of which actually makes any difference. Whether it was an honest mistake, a freudian slip, or a deliberate misspelling, we are talking about an appallingly ignorant popular response to the act of a 13 year old girl.

[SenorBeef]

The fact that we’re even discussing how grave the spelling error is shows that we’re absurdly tolerant of the fucking batshit insane barbarian shit from other cultures. I mean - really - what’s there to discuss here?

[AK84]

@Gary_Kumquat

None of which actually makes any difference. Whether it was an honest mistake, a freudian slip, or a deliberate misspelling, we are talking about an appallingly ignorant popular response to the act of a 13 year old girl.

Ignorant? I would call it a proper response. She and her mother were transferred to different town in a different province. Taking them out of an area where there are many people escaping from the fighting futher north west-there has been a history of militant attacks on minority community and where the they could have become a target for militants and if the issue had gone on longer, it could have led to threats to the community itself. The decision of the administration helped clip this issue in the bud The stakes here are far far higher than a simple question of freedom of speech, which people on this board seem to reduce it too.
The teacher on the other hand was exceptionally stupid.

[MichaelEmouse]

@AK84

Ignorant? I would call it a proper response. She and her mother were transferred to different town in a different province. Taking them out of an area where there are many people escaping from the fighting futher north west-there has been a history of militant attacks on minority community and where the they could have become a target for militants and if the issue had gone on longer, it could have led to threats to the community itself. The decision of the administration helped clip this issue in the bud The stakes here are far far higher than a simple question of freedom of speech, which people on this board seem to reduce it too.
The teacher on the other hand was exceptionally stupid.

AK84,

Obviously, you’re the one with knowledge of how things are in Pakistan. Could such a story credibly result in violence towars a group? People getting killed because a kid wrote about cursing a religious figure? Would this sort of violence be broadly supported by most Pakistanis? How about a substantial minority? Only a tiny minority?

[Alessan]

AK48, the “response” people were talking abut was that of the people threatening her, not that of the Pakistani government.

[AK84]

@MichaelEmouse

AK84,

Obviously, you’re the one with knowledge of how things are in Pakistan. Could such a story credibly result in violence towars a group? People getting killed because a kid wrote about cursing a religious figure? Would this sort of violence be broadly supported by most Pakistanis? How about a substantial minority? Only a tiny minority?

1. On its own, no it should and would not. But, as the past has shown, such trivial actions can get hijacked, and once this story comes in the media, it can and does spread out of control thanks to people with their own agendas. Note, hardly anyone, even most extremists, individually, would really believe that what she did or did not do is going to harm Islam. But, they cannot be percieved to be seen as not standing up for Islam. Plus, the area where this occured, is right next to areas of heavy Taliban activity, where there was a major military operation last year. The story ran the risk of spirilling out of control. What the Administration did; transferring her to a different area was proper in the circumstances. It has for the most part ended this matter.

2)No. Not even a tiny minority would support this.

[running_coach]

@AK84

1. On its own, no it should and would not. But, as the past has shown, such trivial actions can get hijacked, and once this story comes in the media, it can and does spread out of control thanks to people with their own agendas. Note, hardly anyone, even most extremists, individually, would really believe that what she did or did not do is going to harm Islam. But, they cannot be percieved to be seen as not standing up for Islam. Plus, the area where this occured, is right next to areas of heavy Taliban activity, where there was a major military operation last year. The story ran the risk of spirilling out of control. What the Administration did; transferring her to a different area was proper in the circumstances. It has for the most part ended this matter.

2)No. Not even a tiny minority would support this.

Explain why this should even be in the media. This should not have gone beyond the teacher. Just the fact she faced expulsion for a spelling error is way out of proportion for what she did.

[Gary_Kumquat]

@AK84

Ignorant? I would call it a proper response.

"Bhatti’s teacher reportedly beat her in front of her class and then referred the case to the school’s principal…

…religious clerics rallied locals to protest in the streets…

…Protestors chanted slogans against the student, her family, and Christianity, The Express Tribune newspaper reported. Her case was a “conspiracy against Islam,” clerics said in Friday sermons, according to the newspaper.

…her dot made the word derogatory and this is a good enough reason for a consequence and she should never in her life dare to think anything against Islam.”

Proper response? Beating a child, protests in the street, accusations of a conspiracy against islam, and threats about what she dare think. Nope, that is just shitwitted ignorance.

[orcenio]

@Gary_Kumquat

"Bhatti’s teacher reportedly beat her in front of her class and then referred the case to the school’s principal…

…religious clerics rallied locals to protest in the streets…

…Protestors chanted slogans against the student, her family, and Christianity, The Express Tribune newspaper reported. Her case was a “conspiracy against Islam,” clerics said in Friday sermons, according to the newspaper.

…her dot made the word derogatory and this is a good enough reason for a consequence and she should never in her life dare to think anything against Islam.”

Proper response? Beating a child, protests in the street, accusations of a conspiracy against islam, and threats about what she dare think. Nope, that is just shitwitted ignorance.

I think that part of AK84’s quote was specifically directed at the Pakistani government’s response. In fact I, too, see the wisdom in relocating the family but, ultimately, my main focus (and anger) is at the violence, the rage, and the paranoia directed at the child and her family. Horrible stuff.

[Gary_Kumquat]

@orcenio

I think that part of AK84’s quote was specifically directed at the Pakistani government’s response. In fact I, too, see the wisdom in relocating the family but, ultimately, my main focus (and anger) is at the violence, the rage, and the paranoia directed at the child and her family. Horrible stuff.

I have no problem at all with the concept that the local government have done an admirable job of damage control to prevent this issue escalating.

What is depressing is that they should need to. My disdain is aimed purely at the superstitious peasants who have caused this situation. Fuck them and their beliefs.

[raskolnik]

It is not that the islamic extremist is the majority…
…but he is the most likely to kill you. In Syria, my grandparents country, they had the joke " a christian will kill a jew, a moslim will kill a christian, and a turk can kill all of them." In Pakistan Al Qaedia supporters are a minority, but the most viokent and dangerious minority.

[Gatopescado]

This thread is chock-fucking-full of misspellings. Is this irony or some kind of sick joke?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Gatopescado

This thread is chock-fucking-full of misspellings. Is this irony or some kind of sick joke?

And yet no-one is being threatened with arrest, expulsion or murder. Go figure.

[AK84]

@orcenio

I think that part of AK84’s quote was specifically directed at the Pakistani government’s response. In fact I, too, see the wisdom in relocating the family but, ultimately, my main focus (and anger) is at the violence, the rage, and the paranoia directed at the child and her family. Horrible stuff.

The provincial and district governments actually.

I agree that the actions of the teacher in physically assualting her were reprehensible. As was the coopting of this issue by the elements that did. But an area where you have had militant activity in the recent past, it is to be expected.