I have to wonder about this. Not about Palin - who I am on the record about. I have to wonder about Biden.
I mean, he isn’t terribly popular among Democrats - he’s run for president several times and saw his candidacy go nowhere each time. He represents a state Obama needs no help carrying, and that is about as big population wise as, say, Alaska.
Like Alaska, Delaware is a powerhouse in the economy in a certain sector, which has led Biden to a certain reputation for being a shill for it. And let’s face it - the man is about as fascinating as drying paint - he can only generally get into the papers by making horrible political mistakes himself.
The man has certain virtues, obviously, but this is what most people (even most Democrats) think when they think about Biden, which isn’t often. And yet Obama rolled out his name like it was terribly exciting and an indication that his campaign was just going gangbusters.
Palin is really a rather ordinary person in terms of her intellect. She talks in circles. I couldn’t tell if that was intentional or not She was very unclear on how she differs from Bush. I wonder if she has many women friends in her personal life.
So much of what she does contradicts what she says that she is. I’m not used to that “style” of human being. After I retired from teaching, I voluteered at a wildlife park. We really respected and protected all of the creatures in the park whether they were in captivity or not. We wouldn’t let kiddies throw rocks at lizards.
I was a wolf docent. Wolves were returned to the endangered list in the Northern Rockies in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho just last July. There is a lot of disagreement – even among environmentalists – about how much culling to do to maintain a balance. I understand that there is a time and place for culling. But those decisions are not something that should be made flippantly. Sarah Palin has come across so far as being very casual about hunting wolves. If anyone knows how the decision to hunt them from helicopters was made, I would appreciate a link. If I am mistaken, I would like to know it.
He was on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He has sponsored and cosponsored numerous bills relating to foreign affairs. Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on European Affairs and NATO Affairs. On diplomatic and governmental business, he has traveled to the Middle East, Europe, Central Asia, and Africa. This is aside from his personal experiences as having an immigrant father, living abroad, having a sister who is Asian, and overall being more worldly than Palin. I think this qualifies as a good deal of experience, both personal and governmental. In point of fact, he has more foreign relations experience than Clinton or Reagan had when they were elected. And let’s not forget that Joe Biden brings a shitload of his own experience to the ticket.
Palin? NOTHING. Left North America for the first time recently.
If you count mayor of a city of less than 9,000 (her hometown), and less than two years as governor of a state smaller in population than Chicago, with literally NO other experience in government, as superior to Obama’s experience in state and national government, not to mention a constitutional law background and years of community activitism because hers is “executive” in nature, then you are clearly unable to think critically and make a rational evaluation. If Obama were your candidate, you’d be 100% content with his level of experience. If Palin were a liberal, you’d be railing against her. This question emanates purely from your partisanship.
How does he “appear stronger”? I doubt he would look into Putin’s eyes and see into his soul, or anything. His much greater experience and knowledge base about America’s diplomatic relations and foreign policy due to his experiences in education and life experience, his obviously even temperament.
Palin? NOTHING. You think she’s cute and McCain picked her. That’s good enough for you.
I’ve predicted every election correctly since 1980 but I can’t as of yet predict this one. And yes, I have voted on the losing side more than once. Palin could have done better in the Gibson interview no doubt. Until I see more evidence that she can’t think on her feet I’ll give her a pass on that. It was her first interview on national tv.
Hurricane Ike could be a huge factor as well. Gas prices jumped 30 cents overnight here. If the hurricane knocks out a large amount of refineries and oil rigs that causes fuel to spike above 4.50 a gallon then the drill baby drill mantra from Palin will only become stronger. And the Obama side saying that we need solar and wind power! will become increasingly weak.
In a recent CNN poll of both Dems and Republicans as to “who’s qualified to be present”, Biden ranked highest of all 4 nominees, receiving evidently about 40% or more of the Republican approval.
Biden 70%
McCain 60%
Obama 60%
Palin 50%
It’s interesting that Palin scored lowest (by far) among women.
Just to comment on this. I was in Alaska for a few weeks once. One day we drove a an hour or two to Portage Glacier outside of anchorage and we saw a wolf. It kept walking back and forth for some reason. We then saw that there was another wolf, which had been hit by a car. The one wolf seemed to be torn between leaving it’s “friend” and trucking back into the wilderness. It was sad. Beautiful animals.
I’d like to say also, and I wasn’t able to appreciate this until I was there, Alaska is big on a whole other scale. I was fortunate enough to be taken up in a plane a few times and get the lay of the land. Mount McKinley is humongous. Now I’m sure the Himalayas are impressive, but thought they’re about 10,000 feet higher, McKinley goes from sea level up in a relatively short span.
Part of my time there was spent at the Rainy Pass Lodge in the middle of the Alaskan Range (Iditarod photo shoot). In my ignorance of such wilderness I was eagerly asking questions to the people who ran the lodge. They gave me an understanding of moose, bears, etc. The two animals they were in awe of were 1) wolverines: supposedly the meanest baddest thing on earth and 2) wolves. According to these guides wolves were the king of the wilderness. They roam the hills and nothing stands in their way.
Why my poor and dear Stavin’ foggie, a.k.a. 40watt, thanks for the -unneeded- permission.
Might as well add yet another “thanks” for making my point – you’re too fucked-up to engage in any sort of “debate”. Trust I din’t overly tax you and your tepid intellect. Working with low wattage here people, lighten-up…it’s the present and the future.
I’ll have to give you this one, I guess. When I think of foreign policy experience, I’m thinking in terms of playing a role in setting administration foreign policy. But I didn’t make that clear and I can see how you could legitimately regard his foreign policy experience in Congress to be, in point of fact, foreign policy experience.
I would quibble however, with the notion that traveling abroad or having foreign members in one’s family qualifies a foreign policy experience.
Would you not think then that the type of foreign policy experience you’re talking about is relatively inconsequential? And wouldn’t it indicate that a president’s personality, negotiating skills, philosophy and world view would play a larger role in that president’s ability to deal with other countries effectively than the type of experience you list?
My point isn’t that Palin has scads of executive experience. It’s just that given what little she has, it’s still more than Obama’s.
Exactly! And that goes to one of the points that I’ve been trying to make around here lately, and that is that people are guided largely by a political philosophy that is complex and deep-seated and created by previous experiences, observations and teachings. The stuff we’re arguing around here would just be verbal masturbation were it not for the possibility that we might be reaching lurkers whose political philosophies have not yet gelled. In other words, you aren’t gonna convince me and I’m not gonna convince you.
So in other words, when it comes to dealing with a tough, brutal adversary who cares nothing about that kind of experience and is likely to eat a nice guy like Obama is for lunch, you got nothin’. You’ve gotta be tough and you’ve gotta be disciplined and you’ve gotta have a record as someone to take seriously. McCain clearly has that kind of gravitas, and I’d wager that Palin comes much, much closer to it also than does Obama.
No, actually you’re wrong about that. I’m impressed with her acheivements and her toughness and her ambition. I’m also impressed that she has the kind of charisma and charm that she has which has sthoroughly energized the Republican base. That is an inspirational quality, and few people have it. I believe she can energize and inspire people and therefore be much more effective at getting things done.
But yeah, she is cute. (Still though, I’ve criticized people in the past for favoring a candidate solely because of their looks, and if her looks were all Sarah Palin had going for her I would still think she’s cute but I wouldn’t support or defend her as I have.)
Another thing that never gets mentioned but which I think plays a big role in conservative excitement about her is that she’ll represent the country in a very positive way to other countries. Let’s face it, we haven’t had a Jackie Kennedy in American politics since, well, Jackie Kennedy. Many of us conservatives are delighted at the notion that we may well at last have a glamorous but intelligent, tough and competent woman to represent this country abroad. We all know men are suckers for pretty women, and I can imagine her being very charming and effective in dealing with foreign leaders one she gets her sea legs under her.
I am not impressed. He has been in the Senate for 2 1/2 years and has been campaigning for about half that tie. Given the ramp up to the job when he started, he’s basically got an item that looks good on a resume at first glance. And, Ruby, the notion that his father’s status as an immigrant gives him some bona fides is laughable. The man left when he was two years old. Give me a break.
I didn’t say it was foreign policy experience, nor that having an immigrant father is a bonafide. But it does make him a more cosmopolitan, worldly person than Palin, who is a textbook example of provincial. And magellan01? He’s been in the Senate for 4 years, not 2.5.
No, but apparently you do, thus proving my point that, no matter what evidence you are offered, you will find a way to discount it. You think his experience is inconsequential, but prop up the very thin resume of Palin. Why? Partisan thinking.
No, I actually think that experience counts for something. It’s not everything, because you can have all the experience in the world and a terrible way of relating to people, and you’d be a failure. But there is no evidence that Sarah Palin knows jackshit about the world outside Alaska, or the United States. If you can offer persuasive evidence to the contrary, please do so.
It’s not enough to prepare her for life in Washington. Period.
You could convince me if you had any evidence. But you never, ever do. Notice how my post had actual facts in it and not just opinions. There were some, but there was also evidence, which you had to concede. And I am not married to the Democrats. In fact, I only registered Democrat so I could vote for Obama in the primaries. If the Dems picked a fucking moron as their Veep, I’d be vocally critical of them. I see no such capacity for free, critical thought from you. So don’t lump me in with you as intractible, and arguing just for the sake of getting my message out. That’s what YOU are doing, not what I’m doing. I’m arguing with you because I think you are wrong, not to sway lurkers.
I think Obama is genteel and urbane. I don’t know that he’s nice. You only think he’s nice because he’s not snide, insulting, or crass in his speech, though I can’t say the same for Palin. Do not mistake a cool, controlled demeanor for weakness and softness. He kicked Hillary Clinton’s ass, I think he could face Putin witht he same strength and classiness. What has Sarah Palin ever faced? Seriously, what evidence do you have that she’s tough enough, worldly enough, experienced enough, savvy enough, to face Vladimir Putin? Yeah, you got less than nothin’. In fact, if you back this horse, you should be scared.
I find Obama to be plenty tough and disciplined. He ran a fantastic campaign during the primaries and has shown himself to be a flexible thinker with charisma and an incisive intellect. And I think a hell of a lot of people take him seriously. The Republicans sure as shit did not take McCain seriously in 2000 and swiftboated his ass. Palin? No one takes her seriously, no one at all.
What bloody achievements? Seriously. And what toughness? Ambition, I’ll give you.
Oh, what a load of festering horseshit this is. She wouldn’t be Jackie Kennedy, for fuck’s sake, she’d be the Vice motherfucking President. And if you don’t think electing Barack Obama would represent the country in a positive way to other countries, far more than Governor Cheesecake would, then you are kidding yourself. There’s ample evidence that he is viewed quite positively around the world. The world doesn’t have an opinion on Palin because no one has ever heard of her until last week. I doubt they’d find her provincial folkiness endearing, though.
In other words, her cuteness and sassy little personality are going to melt the cold little heart of Vlad Putin. Matt Damon was right. The Republicans think this is a fucking Disney movie. I’m more frightened and disgusted than ever. Thanks, SA. I hope your ridiculous rhetoric is having the same effect on your imaginary audience of lurkers/undecided voters.
Chill, Ruby. They’re idiots. You will recall they have ALWAYS been idiots. There is nothing we can do for them except prevent them from quitting this board and joining one where there are other idiots for them to infect.
Conservatives/Libertarians (I’m too smart to see much real difference) are either stupid, lazy, or selfish. You can tell by the crap they believe or pretend to believe. I am tired of being on the righthand side of the bell curve and having to play nice with them. They work hard at being idiots.
I guess SA admitted as much when he said nothing I could say, including facts and evidence, would sway him, and he’s just arguing to impress his fictitious spectators who he thinks are going to be won over by his scintillating rhetoric. So you’re right, what’s the point?
SA: You bet your ass I vote, but I vote for whatever candidate I think is best suited for the job. I do not vote blindly down party lines, and that’s the fact. And yes, I think I like calling Palin Governo Cheesecake. I think that shows a bit of free thought, don’t you? Got to break up all those facts with some levity. You don’t, of course, because you don’t offer any facts, so no wonder your response to me was entirely substance-free.
You might want to take a look at some of the threads around her about the differences between liberals and conservatives. They pretty support your post, which is that conservatives are very good at seeing things from the liberal point of view, but liberals are dismal at seeing things from the conservative point of view. And this difference is due to the fact that liberals such as yourself are so convinced of the righteousness of their own opinions, so utterly convinced of their own intellectual and moral superiority, that anyone who disagrees with them simply have to be idiots or assholes…there’s no other concievable explanation.
People who are not liberals have marvelled at your conceit and arrogance for decades…and they’ve thought it stupid and assholish.
(Still though, I’ve criticized people in the past for favoring a candidate solely because of their looks, and if her looks were all Sarah Palin had going for her I would still think she’s cute but I wouldn’t support or defend her as I have.)