I was wondering just how far north can palm trees be found in the US:
a) East Coast
b) West Coast
c) Gulf Coast
Overall, is the latitude pretty consistent, or do we see a variance?
There are some palm trees on the campus of Saint Louis University (St. Louis, MO). They were planted as part of a rather controversial campus beautification program. I don’t know how much effort is spent on keeping them alive, but they’ve been there a few years and seem to be doing ok.
Fairbanks, AK, inside the funeral home there. Oh, you mean growing outside… 
There’s one in Williamsburg, VA, but it’s kept alive by a hot air vent, so I don’t know if it counts.
It is an heretic that makes the fire,
Not she which burns in it.
I spend some of my time on St. George Island on the Florida panhandle. Pine trees are the natural growth on the island, but folks who build houses there sometimes plant palm trees as well. They don’t seem to do too well, even that far North.
batgirl-
Are those palm trees in St. Louis, or just palmettoes (short and squat compared to the full-on palm tree)?
“Every time you think, you weaken the nation!” --M. Howard (addressing his brother, C. Howard).
Let’s see here…
Chamaerops humilis can supposively take a winter temp of 10ºF though it might be a little bushier than what you’re looking for.
Brahea armata and Jubaea chilensis both claim a survivable winter temp of 14ºF and has more of a traditional palm tree look to it.
Nannorrhops ritchiana is another bushy one (not really tree looking) but it has the rest beat at 4ºF for short periods.
Phoenix Dactylifera is another tree looking one that might withstand a short period of 6ºF under optimal conditions, though I wouldn’t plant one in Chicago.
There’s others, but the lowest is really as I said, about 4-6ºF
So! Looking at my handy USDA Climatic Zone Map (1999 edition), zone 7b is about as cold as we can go. This would be…
a) East Coast - Southern sections of Virgina
b) West Coast - All the way up through Washington state in a fairly narrow strip and even some of the southernmost island off the south coast of Alaska (!)
c) Gulf Coast - Midstate Arkansas and Oklahoma.
“I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.”
I should note my post above was a slightly rose-colored view of the palm growing world. While you could grow a palm up in Washington state, most likely it’d suffer quite a bit of dieback and not last half as long as a palm in a more natural (or at least suitable) environment. Also, even within the USDA climate zones there’s always pockets of mini-climates caused by sun reflecting off buildings, shade, heated asphalt, dryer or air ducts, underground pipes or tunnels, bodies of water, etc.
“I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.”
This is so interesting…
I remember seeing something related to this on the California PBS program “California’s Gold” (where host Huell Hauser (sp?) does a sort of travelog of the state.) Apparently, Highway 99, which travels N-S through the state, there is a divider strip, that has oleander planted on it - for hundreds of miles. Somewhere along this oleander-ridden divider strip, there is this one spot where a lone pine tree planted next to a lone palm tree. According to this TV program I saw, this spot is where (at least symbolically) the “palm tree” (more tropical) area of the state ends, and the colder, not tropical area of the state begins. (Or, if you are travelling south, where the “pine tree” area ends, “palm tree” area begins. You get my drift.)
I’ve never seen this lone pine tree and palm tree along Hwy 99. (I get off 99 to Hwy 41, near Fresno, to go to Yosemite.) So I guess this spot that indicates where the “palm tree area” ends in California is north of Fresno.
So, Jophiel, I might be able to grow one in my back yard here in the Dallas area? I have a perfect place in the middle of the yard where a young Maple didn’t survive the summer a couple of years ago.
It would be cool to have a palm tree in the back yard. Which one of those varieties grows coconuts?
We’ve got palm trees all over the place here in San Francisco. In fact I was surprised to see them myself when I moved here 3 years ago. I still think of them as a tropical plant - and SF sure ain’t the tropics! But there was a huge one in the back yard of my apartment, so I can attest that they will grow well even when very neglected.
Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to
pound in the correct screw.
Sorry Jim, but Cocos nucifera is a zone 9 plant (min 20ºF) which includes south Texas, but not Dallas.
For that matter, if you’re interested in palms for your home, call local nurseries and ask their opinion. I’m only going off of commonly accepted hardiness ratings and not taking into account soil conditions, wind, humidity, etc.
“I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.”
I may just do that, Jophiel. It just struck me as a landscaping idea for the back yard.
A palm tree, a couple of dozen bags of playground sand. There is already a low place that I could dig out and put one of those plastic landscaping pools. And TADA!, a tropical island in the back yard.
The coconuts would have been nice, though.
My ex-g/f and I had a joke about the “last” joshua tree (not a palm, but this thread reminded me of it) at Edwards Air Force Base (CA). It was (is?) just before the north gate, south of hwy 58. The last time I was up that way the “last” tree seemed to have been accompanied by several smaller ones.
This is outside the US, but in the part of Switzerland that’s south of the Alps (Ticino) you can find palm trees, which would be approx. 46 degrees latitude North or the same latitude as Montreal (Canada).
This may be a bit off the subject, but I remember an older gentleman who lived next-door to me when I was a kid in Dayton, OH. He was probably the best gardener I’ve ever seen. His universal gardening tool was a worn-out, tape-wrapped putty knife that was in his hip pocket 24/7.
He didn’t grow palm trees (or if he did, he didn’t tell anyone), but his pride was a fully-grown banana tree. The tall hedges he cultivated around his property kept prying eyes out, but I was, on several occasions, privileged to see his banana tree up close and personal.
Mind you, the tree never bore fruit that I know of. But if that man could sustain a banana tree in Dayton, Ohio, I figure a determined person could grow a palm tree just about anywhere.
I don’t know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free…
T
Well, I’ve read that there are species of Trachycarpus (relatives of the common T. fortunei) that are frequently seen in snow in the Himalayas. In fact, T. Fortunei, AKA Windmill Palm (which can grow to 30 feet) can stand temps of 10 F or lower. It is probably the cold hardiest palm, beside Rhapidophyllum hystrix (Needle Palm) which is supposedly the most cold hardy (though, it’s a bushy type). R. hystrix It’s native to the forests of the South East, whilc T. fortunei is native to China.
For California on the coast, we are fortunate to have such moderate temperatures in Winter. We can grow a wide range of palms outside, such as Syagrus romanzoffiana, many of the date palms,Jubaea chilensis, Brahea armata, Livistona chinensis, various palmettos, and many many more (too many than I or you care to have me list ;)).
As to the bananas, bananas can be grown outside, as long as the corm (where the roots and leaves originate)doesn’t freeze. In areas where the corm doesn’t freeze, but the leaves do, the plant will come back each year, however, you will not get fruit (they have to have at least 10 months or so of frost free weather to flower and fruit). If you want the look, Musa Basjoo is the way to go. If planted without protection, it should survive temps of at least -3F. With mulching, it could possibly stand temps of -20f.
It’s worth the risk of burning, to have a second chance…
Glad to see that I live in a state that has commutative latitude. I wonder if it works that way longitudinally also. I could get lost if it doesn’t. I wonder which number initiative set things up that way. Californians can do anything with initiatives.
Actually, California could do very well without Fresno. (Ya seen one ash, ya seen 'em all.) But palm trees appear far up the Central Valley, well above Sacramento. Probably those two trees are there because there’s something there that makes it hard to grow oleander at that spot. 
Palm trees grow a long ways up Hwy. 101 also – much better than dalmatians. So I don’t see why they named that highway after those dogs anyhow. . .or was that J. Serra’s middle name.
Ray (ran out of stuff to palm off)
Palm trees? They’re thriving in Toronto.
…oh, you mean outside the mall…
Seriously, I’ve heard that there is one street in Victoria, BC, with an unusually-favourable microclimate, that allows palm trees to grow.
I didn’t see anything on the Tourism Victoria Day Trips pages specifically mentioning palm trees, but the climate is described as “Sub-Mediterranean”.
While you’re at it, visit Osoyoos, BC, where Canada’s only desert is located.
Canada. Not just icebergs and polar bears!*
*Although it certainly feels like it when my aunt calls from Vancouver Island to say that the flowers are already blooming, and meanwhile it’s -25 in Toronto and we’ve got six more weeks of ice and snow before we can even think about the mud of spring… mutter grumble…
Rigardu, kaj vi ekvidos.
Like Arnold’s, also outside the US.
On the island of Rothsay, just west of Glasgow, Scotland, at a balmy 55 degrees North.
Yes, Sunspace, Victoria does have palms, as does Vancouver, and they’re not limited to just one street.
Some tall ones have the growing tops wrapped in burlap for the winter; maybe that would work for your back yard, JimB. I suppose that’s how they got to be tall in the first place. The more common short ones, I think, are the umbrella palm T. Fortunei mentioned above.
And Osoyoos is great for a prairie boy - even drier than Saskatchewan!
Bob the Random Expert
“If we don’t have the answer, we’ll make one up.”