Great trivia question: Which ocean leads to the eastern end of the Panama Canal? Answer at: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/cia99/Panama_sm99.jpg
It would be nice to have a high-ranking U.S. official at the ceremony, but really I was wondering what egkelly thought was the significance of Clinton’s absence. The OP implied the Clinton was somehow responsible for the transfer.
All this talk about Red China taking over the Panama Canal is stupid. They may will buy into a piece of the (finacial) action, but they have no way to strategically control the canal. They are simply investors in an enterprise they can’t take home with them. Panama and the canal are still part of an American sphere of military influence. The day a Chinese soldier sets foot in the Western Hemesphere is also the day after World War III.
Correct, the Western Hemisphere is still very strong–no chink in our armor.
Ursa Major is right. Let’s clear some of the facts, shall we? Then we can call the OP out on his slurs.
The company in question is the ports subsidiary of Hutchison Whampoa . The founder/Chairman there is pretty well connected politically in Red China, but there’s been no allegation that he’s running some kind of SPECTRE-type organization or that China is running the show. It’s just a big company. It is a very large investor in the emerging telecom business around the world, including in the United States.
Additionally, Hutchison is not “taking over the Canal” or even “running the Canal.” It purchased a concession to operate two of the ports, one on each side of the Canal. That’s it. Even if China somehow acquired control of Hutchison and caused the company to do something stupid, the Canal will stay open as always. It’s not like they’re building gun batteries at those ports.
While we’re on the subject of the Canal staying open, there was a reason the Canal handover was negotiated to take so long. For the past two decades, Panama has been developing, with US help, internal resources properly to operate the Canal. They’ll do just fine.
Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine
Boris B said:
I think egkelly is trying to bring up the point that Rush Limbaugh brought up about it, to wit:
If anything good ever happens in this country, Bill Clinton swoops in to take credit for it. Ergo, if Bill Clinton is avoiding any association with the Panama Canal transfer, even Clinton must think it’s a disaster waiting to happen, for if it were a good thing, Clinton would be trying to take credit for it.
Mr. Limbaugh’s opinion, not necessarily mine.
JMCJ
Die, Prentiss, Die! You will never have a more glorious opportunity!
Mjollnir said:
Please tell me you didn’t intend that pun… oh, God, I’m dying here…
JMCJ
Die, Prentiss, Die! You will never have a more glorious opportunity!
IIRC, the US got involved in the Panama Canal for military reasons. If we had the canal, then we only needed one navy. If one coast was threatened,the navy could shuffle over via the canal instead of going around South America. These were the days of isolationism, when America was concerened about defenses instead of ‘projecting’ power.
Now days, US naval power centers around super carriers. Can a supper carrier even get through the canal? The U.S. also has mulitple navies. One in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific, one in the Mederterranian, one in the Indian, one in the neighboors swimming pool. The US navy has enough power to protect it’s own coast and probably all of North America.
Because the US navy no longer needs the canal, it has lost it’s military significance. Anyways, if the Chineese navy tries to slip a fleet through, I’m sure that the US navy will be waiting on the other side.
Because the canal has lost it’s military significance, it is soley a business venture. The US government is not in the business of making a profit. If the canal falls into ruin, that’s OK. In fact, US railroads would probably like it.
Also, the Panamanians were getting restless about the US having such a strong presence in their country. Things could have become hostile. But to preserve the peace, the US gave up the canal. Because the US was in a no win situation in this aspect, many people felt resentful about it. That is probably why no high ranking officials went down their.
And if anyone worries about the Chinese attack the U.S., they should first consider how much the Chinese economy depends on the U.S. Just go out to Wal-Mart and look at how much of the junk is Made in China.
danielnsmith:
Our modern carriers can’t fit through the Canal. And you’re right, we have ample navy in every ocean. Even if there were a war in the Pacific, I suspect we keep a lot of the fleet in the Atlantic and Mediterranean anyway, for strategic reason.
One question I have for the people who do believe Chinese involvement with the Canal allows them to threaten the U.S., is, how exactly? They have enough nuclear weapons to threaten us that way (back to Mutual Assured Destruction), but I simply can’t imagine their fleet, or any fleet they’re likely to float in the near future, being a threat to even a small regional group of the U.S. Navy. Their navy is overwhelmingly coastal, and the oceangoing element is comparatively small.
Our presence in South Korea is infinitely more of a threat to them than any Chinese influence in the Canal is a threat to us.
… Unless they put an infantry division and a bunch of aircraft there, and start arming a pro-Beijing Panamanian regime, in which case let me know.
I don’t want to make people think like me, I want them to think like me of their own free will.
Actually, the modern aircraft carriers in service with the U.S. Navy can, and have, transited the Panama Canal. Feel free to check some of their sites or even to call the U.S. Navy Historical Museum.
I did. As best I can tell, American Aircraft Carriers have been too wide to traverse the Canal since the Midway-Class ships in 1945. Do you have a cite otherwise?
Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine
The largest U.S. warships able to use the canal were the New Jersey class battleships built during WWII. When they passed through there was only six inches on each side between the hull and the sides of the locks.
Didn’t I read that the US retained the right to militarily defend the canal?
If you can’t convince them, confuse them.
Harry S. Truman
Actually that should read “Iowa Class” to which the USS New Jersey belongs. These battleships were 108 feet wide. The specs for Aircraft carriers vary:
USS Enterprise (1936): 80 feet (Fits)
USS Enterprise (1960): 230 feet (No way)
USS Washington (1989): 125 feet (Nope)
I can’t find any carriers proper (jeep carriers don’t really count) built after WWII that could make it.
Thanks Ursa. I got the wrong “ditch” in my misremembrance. Cheers! & I won’t consider helicopter carriers or the French or British “carriers” either in a search.
A couple of points.
The United States did not create Panama. An indigenous independence movement already existed when the US took an interest in the area and supported their secession from Columbia.
And the Panamanians already run the canal and have been for several years. All that has changed is that they now own it as well.
I think everybody is missing the real point. The canal belongs to the world-and it should not be jeopardized by being run into the ground (by a small corrupt little country). I would suggest that it would be better if the UN were to run the canal-then we could have French engineers running it, german cops to police it, and Russian accountants to keep the books.
Actually, I think it is you who is missing the point. The Panama Canal does not belong to the world. It belongs to (hold on tight, now!) Panama. Used to belong to the US. We gave it to Panama. Should the UN also administer the Port of NY and NJ? (Don’t answer that, people who know how it’s run now 
)
Sarcasm aside, don’t worry so much, egkelly. It’s not really that difficult to run a canal, the US administration has been training the Panamanians to do it for 20 years, they’ve actually been doing it for more than 10, and the Canal is less important than it used to be anyway. There’s a happy ending here, OK?
P.S. Russian accountants?
Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine
egkelly said:
Yeah, but with the U.N.'s luck, they’d get Russian engineers running it, French cops policing it, and German accountants to keep the books.
JMCJ
Die, Prentiss, Die! You will never have a more glorious opportunity!
Color me scared. The Panama Canal in the hands of Panama?
Next thing you know the Suez will be controlled by the EGYPTIANS.