I don’t know if any of you have had a chance to watch the HBO documentary “Paradise Lost” documenting the murder of three young children in West Memphis, TN (do so if you get a chance- its very compelling. Otherwise much of the info is at http://www.wm3.org/ ) and the subsequent trial. I just finished watching it last night and was shocked at what was considered evidence (specifically testimony by some unbelieveable witnesses IMO), the failure of the police to follow up on the bloody man in the Bojangles that night and the loss of the blood samples, and the jury’s choice to impose the death penalty for Echols. I’ve been trying to follow up on some of the points but have not been able to get satisfactory answers to the following questions:
-What was the fiber evidence and how incriminating is it?
-Was Byers (the stepfather) ever considered/investigated as a suspect, and if not, why not?
-The prosecution claims that the knife found in the pond could have caused some of the inflicted wounds. Were there wounds that it could not have caused?
-Was there any investigation of the facial bite-marks?
-Was the forensic expert who testified that he could not have skinned the penis considering the circumstances a defense witness or a prosecution witness under cross-examination?
-Did they ever find out anything more about the mysterious bloody man in Bojangles?
The sites I’ve seen that attempt to answer these questions have a noticable bias- that’s why I’m turning to the Teeming Millions to find out if justice was served or if a travesty occurred.
Glad to see someone else has discovered this documentary! Quite chilling. The website you mentioned is better suited for answering some of your questions. I do know that here wasn’t any real investigation of anyone other that the three boys, Mark Byers included. His wife did die recently of strange circumstances, and I believe he was at least interrogated about that. The bloody man at Bojangles was never found…not that anyone was really looking. As I’m sure you found on the WM3 site, the bite marks were found not to match any of the 3 convicted men. You might also want to check out the paperback published about the case, The Blood of Innocents. It’s written by Guy Reel, Marc Perrusquia, and Bartholomew Sullivan. A slightly skewed version, but a good read, nonetheless.
So those of you who’ve watched the film, what are your opinions? Has anyone heard any information about the proposed follow up documentary?
I did see some info on the points I raised on the WM3 site- however, I found the site to be fairly evenhanded but still more biased than the documentary and didn’t clearly address the points. And they claim that The Blood of Innocents was even more biased of a source so I had discounted it as a valid source.
I don’t necessarily believe that all of them are innocent, but I definitely have doubts- which is why the imposition of the death penalty was so surprising and scary.
Here is some more info for you, Mojo.
During the Misskelly trial:
-According to Lisa Sakevicius from the Little Rock crime lab, some of the fibers found on the victims were microscopically similar to fibers from a shirt at Echols house, and other clothing found in Baldwins closet. The source of the clothing was reported to be the local WalMart.
-Sakevicius also noted that a “Negroid hair fragment” had been found inside the sheet used to wrap Byers when he was transported to the lab from the crime scene.
During the Echols/Baldwin trial:
-Peretti (don’t have first name) from the Arkansas state crime lab testified that the serrated pattern on some of the wounds were consistent with the survival knife pulled from the lake behind the Baldwin home. Peretti also testified that some injuries were also consistent with the knife given to the HBO film crew by John Mark Byers.
So the fiber evidence links whoever committed the crime with WalMart? That ought to narrow down the suspect list in Arkansas (heavy sarcasm).
How incriminating is fiber evidence like that considered, especially considering the source of the clothing? Would it be a 1 in 1,000 chance of a match? More, less?
This case has interested me ever since I read the book. (I used to be a grisly kind of gal reading quite a few true crime stories.) I am interested…Does anyone think these guys deserve at least an appeal? Didn’t the same judge who sat for the original trial of Echols just rule rather recently that he wasn’t entitled to an appeal? I’m no lawyer of course but I do believe that in my state (VA) when a person is sentenced to death an appeal is automatic. Is this not true in other states or am I confusing the appeal process with a new trial? Does anyone know? And what does everyone here think, should this case be looked at again?
Needs2know…I used the search, how neat, to find this thread.
Mojo, I have been wanting to start this exact thread for quite a while now and just haven’t gotten around to it.
I have seen both documentaries. I have a big problem with the confusion over how Mark Byers came to have false teeth. At one time, he said they were knocked out in a fight (over the killings), another time he said they fell out and another source (his dental records?) confirms that he had them removed a little while after the murders. No matter what anyone says, that man is not at all stable.
Also, why is his (Byers) wife’s autopsy still closed? No one can get any info on the cause of her death. (Not even Byers, according to what he says in the second documentary.)
I may be mistaken but I believe there was investigation into the teeth marks but the opinions differ between the prosecutions odontist and the ones for the defense. They claim (prosecutor and odontist) that the mark is not from a bite but from a belt buckle. I don’t see how but then again, definitive proof and undeniable evidence are not exactly abundant in this case.
Those who are dancing look insane to those who cannot hear the music.
One-of-a-kind, custom-designed Wally sig available on request.
Evilbeth…technically speaking I don’t think this is Mojo’s thread anymore. Yesterday I dredged this topic up from the abyss using the search engine. This subject interests me quite a bit, but it doesn’t look like many of the others here are interested at all. Although my “Mumia Abu-Jamal” thread is getting some play. Without trying to get the Mumia supporters in an uproar, I see every bit or more reasoning for the courts to take a hard second look at this case. Perhaps if we post back and forth a couple of times and try to keep this subject a little closer to the top of the thread list it will see some action. I’m interested in knowing what others might think. Of course this case is not nearly as politically charged as the Mumia case so maybe it will not generate as much debate. When the search came up with this thread I was a little suprised to see that it kind of died in the water back in February when Mojo first brought it up.
I had started this thread prior to HBO showing Paradise Lost II which, IMHO, wasn’t as informative as the first- it seemed to focus more on entertainment (specifically the spectacle that is Mark Byers). Evilbeth, I counted 4 ways in which he lost his teeth as there were two versions of how they were knocked out.
I had several issues with II:
-I was disappointed that they didn’t cover the bloody Bojangles guy at all but that may be due to the fact that there’s no new evidence on that front.
-I also didn’t understand the polygraph test (discounting the multiple medications Byers was taking)- is it normal for the questioner to high-five the questionee at the end? Shouldn’t “have you ever stolen anything?” “No.” have been an incorrect response based on the $10,000 of stolen property seen earlier in the documentary?
-The WM3 people were way too smug for my liking. And after the initial introductions, you never see any of the local WM3 supporters again.
I believe those kids are innocent, for many reasons, but above all because teenage guys are not known for their discretion. If they really had done it, one of them would have slipped and told someone.
Mojo…I haven’t seen either of the HBO documentaries. (To tight to pay the extra cable) I read the book sometime back when I was really into true crime, but the case has bothered me ever since. I hadn’t heard about Byers losing his teeth?! I do recall thinking how terrible it must have been for that child to get a spanking from this jerk and then be brutally tortured and murder within a few hours. What that poor child’s life must have been like. I did read something here on the internet concerning the wife’s death. Don’t have time to look it up today but will look into it tomorrow. I do remember that she had pretty good dose of dilaudid in her when she died. I know a little about the drug myself. It’s a pain killer but big on the abuse scale. Later I gotta run.
::making a mental note to always check the date on a thread before responding::
Anyway, my husband and I are very interested in this case. I have seen each documentary several times. I cannot seem to locate the book, so I may have to place an order for it. So far as Byers’ polygraph, I would think that the results would be skewed because of the vast amounts of medication he takes daily. I mean, he was barely there!
Am I correct in thinking that Damien only has one more appeal left before execution? (According to the second documentary, barring a miracle (or someone telling the truth) he could be executed as soon as this fall.)
I can’t believe their aren’t more people on the board interested in this case! (Not to discount you guys, I just expected a larger response!)
Those who are dancing look insane to those who cannot hear the music.
One-of-a-kind, custom-designed Wally sig available on request.
Wow, I’m gone for a few days, and this topic gets some new life! The second documentary was showing for one night in my town, and I missed it. Is there anyplace on the web that addresses Byer’s teeth?
There seems to be a whole lotta skeletons rattling around in the Byer family closet. I’m not sure he’s responsible for the murders, but do I think there’s a lot he’s not telling. He does seem more likely a suspect than the teen boys, IMO.
I believe the book is out of print. I found mine at a used bookstore after watching the doucumentary.
I wonder how Damien Jr. is doing?
Oh, and what’s Damien’s girlfriend’s name? It seems to me she goes by a different name in the book than the movie.