The audio of the 911 calls is available on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s website. The link to listen to the calls is on the right sidebar, under the picture of Madeline Neumann. The article basically summarizes the content of the ministries’ websites.
This article on NBC Channel 13, which does not say what city it broadcasts from, has the important parts from the 911 calls, for anyone who can’t listen.
I’ve no idea how this will proceed from here. The parents do seem thoroughly sincere in their beliefs, but if they even show a shred of doubt that seeking medical health might have been a better choice, then I can’t see it going well for them.
I found a better article for the phone calls from the aunt in California on The Wausa Daily Herald’s website. It also includes a timeline of the events.
I find it pretty shocking that Kara had been in a coma for a day or more, and her mother acknowledged it, according to the aunt. Who doesn’t recognize a coma as something life threatening? I mean, goddamn.
Late to the party here, but I’d say religion, as opposed to faith, killed this child, and that religion is morally culpable while the parents are legally culpable.
Religion, like any other business, has a way of seperating you from your desire or destination so that they may have their ‘cut’. You can have faith in a higher power without the dogma, the large expensive buildings and the paid representatives. You just can’t have a successful business without those things. Churches can foster a sense of tradition and of community, but as in this case, they can also provide deadly advice, for which they should be held accountable.
Neither do the people making excuses for religion. Funny that you aren’t complaining about them.
And I don’t “have anything new to say” because the religious have been doing the same stupid and evil things over and over for millennia. That doesn’t get me anything new to the subject, outside of religious stupidity involving science and technology.
This info from this article is pretty damning as well:
They also seized insurance paperwork and Blue Cross HMO cards for the family, which sounds suspicious to me, if medical intervention wasn’t an option they exercised.
I think we’re all missing the point here. We should take a step back and reflect on the fact that Jesus wanted the little girl to die. He could have stopped it, but god preferred that she expire painfully.
Should we really be questioning *his *will? /religious_bullshit
That families’ cowardice and stupidity killed their daughter. They believe in ludicrous bullshit for no reason other than it makes them feel better. They mortgaged their reason for a fucking fake sense of spiritual calm. I hope they rot in prison and I hope their remaining children grow up atheists and shake off the fucking insipid curse of ignorance their parents cast on them. /spleen_vent
I checked on this hoping to find the judge you quoted was wrong or mistaken, but it appear not. So, in Wisconsin, you aren’t liable if your child suffers because you apply prayer which has never, ever, been shown to be effective?
I assume that the vast majority of Wisconsin legislators would never pray instead of taking their kids to the doctor. So why did they pass such a dumbass law? Could it be because the political danger of saying anything bad about religion kept most of them from disputing the assertion that Jesus would take care of it? Would a representative standing up and saying that praying won’t help be considered an unbeliever, someone not believing in the power of prayer as mentioned in the Bible?
In the Grace transcript James Robison says that an ambulance would be the answer to the prayers. But of course you can get an ambulance without praying also. I bet if someone hadn’t died thanks to prayer he’d be singing a different tune.
If these monsters get off thanks to this law, I hope there is an uproar to repeal it. We’ll see what the churches say then.
Voyager, that’s the part that’s really sticking in my craw, too. Prayer is not and should not ever be a substitute for medical care for your children (I don’t care much what adults do to themselves). End of story.
Okay, so, either Heaven desperately needed to bring up the girl to complete some critically important task, or the girl was, or was going to become, a horrible person and therefore needed to be removed from the world of the living before the damage could be done.
I’m not entirely sure how you are not getting the idea that “faith and religion are mental illnesses” paints all relgious people with a pretty broad brush.
I know you’re not stupid, so I think you’re being obstinately obtuse.
Well, it looks like the law is unambiguously clear, they legally did nothing wrong. I wonder how many states have a similar law? I also wonder how old it is, if it was one of those throwbacks from 1850 like not hitching your horse next to a house of ill repute on a Sunday without a livery permit.
Or maybe one of those 1950’s laws passed during the red scare to assert our non-godlessness, like putting “Under god” in the pledge.
Uh, dude…unless you are married to my wife, live in my house, raise my kids, run my business, pay my bills, eat my food, drive my car, write my letters, talk to my friends, go to my church, et cetera ad infintum, and then make my decisions based on all that, then you and I are living in different realities in the broad sense…here, this or this may help you grasp the broad concept of reality. Of course you’ll want to argue about reality in the most narrow sense (fact: The Earth revolves around the Sun in which we do exist in the same reality) which is extremely disingenuous at best. But the reason why you, me, and everyone else on this planet doesn’t hold the SAME EXACT PERSONALITY, VALUES, OPINIONS, etc. is derived from their own personal perceptions forged by environment, society, etc.