Parents arrested for failing to file homeschooling paperwork – even tough they had filed before the arrest.
I’m sorry - I just realized that I forgot to include what the point of all this was.
People sometimes assume that because CPS sometimes doesn’t do enough in very blatant and extreme cases, that it follows from this that they would certainly not over-react in relatively minor situations. (This sentiment has been expressed in this thread.) My point was that this does not necessarily follow.
Does having such a report automatically bar you from becoming a foster parent, or is it evaluated on a case by case basis to see how serious it was and what you learned from it?
I don’t know, I never worked in the foster care division
Really? My experience was pretty much the opposite. Everyone from the mandated reporters (medical and school personnel) to CPS workers seemed to be intimidated by middle-class parents (forget upper-class) , so that when we got reports about middle class families, they tended to be anything but borderline. Either it was clearly a bogus report or it was clear that someone had abused the child. If Lisa Steinberg http://childabuse.fiu.edu/statistics.php had come from a working class or poor family, I think her teachers would have reported her bruises.
CPS is already suspicious if they are speaking to you. There will never be a non-adversarial CPS discussion unless initiated by the parent. There is no reason to ever speak to them. I think it’s fairly accepted that speaking to the police is not in your best interest - the same applies with CPS as well.
Isn’t this one of those things that can vary significantly from state to state in the U.S.? I recall hearing that Florida, for example, has aggressive and sometimes draconian CPS procedures, where in other states it’s much harder for a situation to result in heavy-handed CPS action.
I’m a little skeptical of this part
People tell you what they want to tell you- it’s really unlikely that your friend would have told you he bruised the kid or even that the kid had bruises unrelated to the swat . Which is not to say that the cops didn’t take the attitude of “let the court figure it out” but they would have had to accuse him of a crime, and I don’t believe a simple swat to your own child is a crime anywhere.
Well that’s just it - he claims he gave the kid a swat, she probably claims he beat the kid, so the cops throw up their hands and say this is above our pay grade, arrest him and let the judge decide.
Does this have anything to do with discipling children? Or CPS?
It really depends where you are and who you’re dealing with. CPS in Tampa, Florida is going to be totally different from CPS in Oklahoma City, which in turn will be dramatically different from CPS in Edmonton. Different laws, funding levels, staff quality, the works, and often radically different capabilities within the same agency.
CPS in Toronto is infamously incompetent, simply because little is spent on it; the job pays little, and so the people who end up doing it are disproportionately stupid and lazy, so we’ve had cases of children being murdered while the family was under CPS supervision, while CPS swoops in on nothing complaints. But you could go to another city and find a quality of service ten times better jsut because the department’s better run.
Our daughter called CPS on me when she was fifteen. They took it very seriously.
Background: She had been sexually assaulted by a teacher and her boyfriend died after coming home from the Gulf War. Although we provided help she went a little nutty after that, started using drugs, became depressed, the whole syndrome.
I had attempted to have a discussion with her and she was out of control. I didn’t handle it well. I grabbed her by both upper arms and sat her down on her bed. Hard. It left several fingerprint bruises on her arms.
After an intensive investigation I was told that any further reports of abuse would result in charges against me. So after that we walked on eggshells around her and she went totally out of control. It threw our family out of balance right when we needed extra firmness and commitment and she needed less power and control.
She left home at sixteen and we were essentially helpless to support her. Eventually she got herself together but those were scary times. We were so afraid for her.
I don’t blame CPS because it was just a series of isolated events not taken in context. And I am glad they take their job seriously. In our case we all could have used help rather than suspicion and condemnation. Perhaps if they’d have dug deeper they could have made some recommendations.
But those people are assailed on all sides and usually seriously understaffed.
I should also note another reason that people who did not abuse their children are sometimes treated worse by CPS than people who did: because they try to fight the system.
Sometimes the guilty party will acknowlege that their guilt, attend the anger management or parenting class or whatever, and it’s done - they’ve fulfilled CPS procedures and can move on. The guy who’s really innocent refuses to go along with this, and thus is officially still a danger and unfit parent. (This also applies to the sentencing and parole phases in criminal cases.)
That has not been the experience of people I know.
And while from your perspective, you say that CPS workers seemed to be intimidated by middle class parents (a bit hard to understand, BTW - what could middle class parents do to CPS workers?) what I can tell you is that middle class parents are very intimidated by the prospect of CPS.
Which is not to say that parents walk around quaking with fear about CPS, or even that they alter their regular behaviour in any way, discipline-related or otherwise. But that people who find themselves in situations that might be interpreted as abuse - mostly when some freak accident happens, but also parents of kids who have weird medical conditions - get to be very agitated about the possibility of CPS intervention. Everyone has heard horror stories.
I don’t think you can prove anything from one particular incident anyway, but to clarify, I’m talking about once you get into the system. I’m not discussing outside mandated reporters. What you say is very likely true there. (Though I don’t think it’s about intimidation. Just that lower class parents fit the abusive stereotype better.)
Suspicious is not an either-or dichotomy. There’s more suspicious and less suspicious.
As you note, CPS can put you in for a lot of trouble based on a relatively low level of proof. IMO raising their suspicions is a very foolish thing to do.
I don’t think it’s “fairly accepted”, though there is certainly a school of thought which maintains this.
IMO, you’re on slightly safer grounds alienating the police than alienating CPS, because as noted the standards of proof are a lot higher for criminal charges. But this is a factor in refusing to talk to the police as well. You risk having a lot of ambiguous evidence being interpreted in ways unfavorable to you by cops who have a “gut feeling” that you’re guilty.
A bit OT, but your 15 year old daughter had a boyfriend over 20 years old? If so, I can only assume your parenting skills were very questionable, and perhaps contributed to her delinquency.
I agree.
I’ve heard quite a few stories on how the CPS were “out of control,” had the parents arrested for talking harshly at their children, etc. In each case there was much more to the story.
Perhaps the parents who are afraid of CPS don’t understand that. Those kinds of parents SHOULD be afraid of CPS, and they should take a parent class or two.
I have to take whatever responsibility is mine in the case of a child going astray. Over the years I think I’ve done that and it’s all water under the bridge now. Regret doesn’t serve me well. Making amends has.
He graduated from high school and went into the service. I may have my time line some mixed up as this was twenty-five years ago and it all blends together.
I remember him as a good boy - clean and honest. His father was the chief of police and they were friends of ours.
Guess it all depends on what you are thinking boyfriend means, too. They went to school together. He was home on leave.
It’s hard not to feel defensive when one’s parenting skills have been called into question. Yeah, we made mistakes and overall tried really hard to be good parents.
Have you ever had a child who is out of control? If you have you certainly understand how little control you have when nothing works anymore. Drugs and depression are tough enemies for a parent to combat.
The same thing they can do to doctors and teachers- send the lawyers out and in the case of CPS workers, the politicians too. Which is not to say the parents aren’t intimidated as well, but it just hasn’t been my experience that CPS workers make middle class parents jump through hoops becasue they can.
There are a lot of horror stories floating around of people supposedly abused by the criminal justice system for claiming innocence. Some people plead guilty, get six months probation, pay lip service to the classes (“yes, I did it, yes, I learned my lesson uh huh mmkay?”) and end up being left alone with a minor record. Those who fight the charges sometimes end up incarcerated for months or even years. Supposedly, in some jurisdictions, denying guilt results in an automatic (either de jure or as a matter of practice) denial of parole since obviously you are very dangerous because you won’t admit what you did and admitting guilt is the first step to recovery…