If Wishart had told porkies he would have been sued. Plenty of facts in his book. Did you read it?
I care more about the opinions of people I know than I do about yours, and none of them liked her as PM.
NZ has not been destroyed- in your opinion. It’s not what it was in the 60s to 90s- a great place to live. Now I can barely afford to buy a packet of crisps there because money is god.
I’ve been in the “media” too, does that make me “significant”?
Given that you know zero about me apart from not liking helen, perhaps you should refrain from the personal observations.
Sorry, I omitted “in Australia” re taxes. I have paid much tax in my lifetime.
Many if not most people fleeing for their lives do leave their families behind. Happens all the time.
Economic refugees, on the other hand, have plenty of time to gather their families and collect many thousands of dollars to pay for the people smugglers/ bribes etc.
I do believe Wishart. No one has sued him for libel yet, to my knowledge.
I don’t think I said that the Torana was the “best”, but if I did, apologies. I think I just said it was a great car.
IMO helen was very bad for NZ.
Take your Aussie politics tips from anyone you care to. Makes zero difference to me.
Governments are not in business, and should stick to politics. Everytime they try to pick winners they usually end up causing problems eg the solar panel fiasco in the US, and how’s the insulation business doing in Oz currently- seems to be causing a bit of strife.
As for debt- if it’s not a problem, why is it such a big deal? If you hadn’t noticed, the EU and the US are in the poo due to out of control debt problems.
Who are going to be the second class citizens- you don’t make that clear?
Well, no doubt it’s an unpopular opinion, but if someone from Sandistanan takes the trouble to go all the way to Oz to work, why should a perfectly capable person in Victoria be paid the dole to do nothing when there is work on farms, fruit picking and running local shops in other states.
But, of course many people nowadays think it should all be handed to them on a plate, due to generations of governments bribing people for votes.
Our great grandparents would be shocked to see it.
Missed a couple of points before. Why do they have to go all the way with fibre NOW? They could always upgrade the last link in the future when the economy could support it.
Governments should invest in infrastructure, but they should not be expecting to make a profit.
Muldoon tried that with “think big” ( in NZ ) and it was pretty disastrous all round.
There’s a reason many (most?) convenience stores are run by immigrants, and that’s because they’re prepared to work the very long hours for the comparatively low returns such a venture offers.
Sure, an Australian adult with options is unlikely to want to work 10 hours a day for something like $12.40 an hour, but to someone from Sandistan, that’s unfathomable riches, still a hell of a lot better than farming sand, and they’re considerably less likely to be caught up in the Civil Unrest/Guerrilla Insurrection du jour in the process.
And they can send some of their excess funds home to help their families there - in several third-world countries, remittances make up a major portion of family incomes.
Most people on the dole, despite the stereotypes, don’t want to be there. They want a job, and if they’re not moving to Didjabringyagrogalong or Waikikamukau, there’s usually a very good reason for it - ranging from “not wanting to be on the other side of the country from their family” to “Dammit Jim, I’m a sports nutritionist, not a fruit-picker.”
Would they? I think a lot of them would be pleased their great-great grandchildren live in a world where they don’t have to wake up at 5am to milk cows and chop firewood six days a week to earn a couple of shillings which would juuuust cover the mortgage, a bit of lamp oil, and maybe - if you were frugal - something to eat that wasn’t turnips.
I see Doggo has the classic signs off having no proof. Yeah there is totally all this evidence for my position in this book, but I can’t actually quote anything from it but trust me it is totally in there.
And fun counter anecdote time, most people I know think Helen Clark was a great PM.
…I never claimed Wishart “told porkies.” Stop making strawmen. I stated that Wishart is a conspiracy theorist. If there was stuff in his book that stated Clark was a witch that destroyed NZ, I’m sure you would be able to at least provide another cite. But you won’t be able to, simply because firstly, Clark isn’t a witch, and secondly she didn’t destroy New Zealand.
And oddly enough: I care more about the opinions of people I know than I do about yours, and all of them liked her as PM. Funny how that works.
NZ has not been destroyed: objective fact. I woke up this morning, in New Zealand, I had a business meeting at eleven o’clock and went round and did a job this afternoon. NZ clearly still exists.
“Not being like it was in the 60s to 90’s” does not equal “NZ destroyed.” Concession accepted. Oh, and I just bought a bag of chips, it cost me less than two dollars. These prices aren’t expensive.
I have no idea. What’s your real name?
You are a poster on the internet going by the name Doggo. You have as much significance as any other internet poster who chooses not to reveal their personal details, including me. Your claim was that the achievements of Helen Clark weren’t significant because she wasn’t in the media. I have shown that yes, she is in the media, therefore by your criteria (not mine) she is significant: do you or do you not agree?
So Doggo, just exactly where are you from and where have you spent your life? You seem to be quite familiar with NZ, and you say you paid taxes but not here (ie in Australia). I wouldn’t ordinarily suggest your background but by giving Australians a lecture on their culture and what it was and how it is being lost, you have made it relevant.
At the risk of continuing a completely off topic discussion I can say that I admired David Lange and yes, he was an iconic Prime Minister. A flawed genius who was right for the time.
Helen Clark will also be remembered in history for being a strong and effective Prime Minister and the first woman PM elected to the the NZ Parliament. Indeed she was outstanding.
Just to be clear, I’m an ACT and National voter but admired Helen Clark as did many other NZers because she was clear, intelligent, and focused. She was an admirable representative of New Zealand.
I came to dislike her but that was because she supported an errant MP rather than risk losing a vote in Parliament.
Helen Clark was subject to various nasty insults and rumours: chiefly that she was a lesbian despite being in a committed 20 year relationship with her husband.
However this pales into insignificance compared to the abysmal vitriol directed at Julia Gillard. Have Australians no dignity? No respect?
From the outside of Oz, Julia Gillard looks like a very good Prime Minister and the coruscating nastiness directed against her tells the world more about the Australian national character than it does about a single politician.
Good grief, it’s an anonymous forum, where people can give their opinions about anything they like. Isn’t that the point of anonymous forums- that you don’t know anything about them.
If some posters just want people to agree with them, I’m sure there is an “I love helen and think she was the best PM ever in NZ” forum somewhere. I promise to never post there.
True and I like her too but to be accurate, Jenny Shipley became Prime Minister in an existing government in 1997 when Jim Bolger (the PM) resigned.
Helen Clark by contrast fought an election in 1999 and won = Prime Minister. Not from my vote but I grudgingly respected her.
Whatever: Julia Gillard did not deserve the appalling disrespect she experienced from the Australian media.
For example: The Alan Jones “died of shame” controversy originated from a speech made by Australian radio broadcaster Alan Jones in September 2012, in which Jones suggested that Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s late father “died of shame”.
Can you imagine your father’s death being twisted by an aged DJ (and former rugby coach) into a public spectacle for his benefit? Seriously. Words fail me.
No one’s saying you can’t post. And anonymonity has never been a key feature of his forum (but nor is anyone asking you to give your anonymity up). The key feature of this forum is facts and reason. If you are giving a bunch of Australians a lecture on what their culture was, should be, and is, your credentials are relevant.
Anyway, you know all this. You just don’t want to admit your background because you know when you do you’ll look like a goose. Because it’s hard to to lecture people on their own culture when you are not from that culture without looking like a goose.
Whatever, I never said ( that I remember ) what Oz culture should be, though I lament the demise of the real Ocker bloke and the car culture. End of the day, Oz culture is up to Aussies to decide, even if people like myself think it’s overly PC now.
Had the Oz PUBLIC disaproved of the media bashing, it wouldn’t have happened.
Julia got trashed, not because she is a woman, but because a lot of people just don’t like her. If the general consensus is that women politicians are “bad” every female politician would get the same treatment, but they just don’t.
For comparison, many UK people celebrated when Maggie died, understandably, but there are many female British politicians that don’t get trashed.
Personally, I dislike her despite her being a woman. For one, for a long time the Labor party has given the impression of being rife with backstabbing. The way she came to power doesn’t contradict this (but neither do Rudd’s attempts at a counter-coup). For another, I dislike her for being opposed to same-sex marriage, and siding with the US government against Assange, an Australian citizen, even after she’d been told that according to Australian law he has committed no crime.
It’s very self perpetuating. I agree they didn’t like her. But then how do they know her in order to know whether they like her or not? Well, partly through her objectively reported actions, but partly also by the negative spin put on her. Leading to less liking for her. And so on.