Passenger awareness on TWA 800 (Don't read if you have a fear of flying!!!)

Factual Questions
21

Wish to God I were pulling your leg, because it really scared the living bejeezus out of me.

When I turned 18, I decided to fulfil a dream I had of going to Paris. We had a foreign exchange student at my school who had used a certain agency in the exchange program, and they also arragned short-term summer trips for school kids to other countries. I called them up, and they told me about two seperate trips to France that were a couple of weeks apart: TWA Flight 800 and TWA Flight 801. I wanted to leave on 801 because it was the earlier flight.

I saved up a lot of money for the trip, but as the deadline neared for 801, I found myself short, so I called them, and said I would take TWA Flight 800 which would give me more time to save up the extra money I needed. I bitched and moaned for a couple of days about not being able to go earlier, and so a relative of mine offered to lend me the money so I could leave on schedule. I thought about it for a while, and wasn’t going to accept the offer because I didn’t feel right about borrowing the money. I turned down the offer, but the relative insisted I go and have a good time, and after a couple of days, I figured “What the hell,” and finally agreed to borrow the money. I called the travel company back, and changed my booking to TWA Flight 801.

Had a lovely time on the trip, but a day or so after I got back, I went back to my job at a convenience store. It was early in the morning, and the newspapers had just arrived, and on the cover, in big bold letters was a legend announcing the crash of TWA Flight 800. I had to sit down. I was shaking so hard that I dropped the papers. My boss came in to find me crying, sick and shaky. She sent me home for the day. I could barely drive. I just kept thinking, “My God, that could have been me. That could have been me. Oh, Jesus, that could have been me!” I even felt guilty because of the fact that I hadn’t been on the flight . . . somone else might have taken the seat I decided not to use and been killed.

To this day, I pray for the families, and cry every time I see footage of the memorials. That could be my mother throwing those flowers into the grey ocean surf.

I thank God and my guardian angel every day, because at this point I’m alive merely by chance and circumstance. It made me realize how precious my life is to me, and how quickly it can be gone. I honestly treasure every day, every minute now, because it’s a gift of fate. Something like this gives you a new appreciation for even a day that seems awful, because it’s a day that you’re still here to kiss your mom, to pet your dog, and to realize just how lucky you are.

22

I also have to agree with JCHeckler. I would actually be surprised if the force of the explosion put all that many people out of comission, and as far as the force of the wind, i’m sure those people sitting up front weren’t conscious, but a few rows back, i can’t see how they could have been out. After all, military pilots ejecting from high speed jets hit that 500 mph wall of wind and survive, although almost invariably they don’t remember a thing from the initial blast of the seat rocket to swinging in the straps of the parachute. So, i figure the altitude, the blast, and wind really didn’t take that many people out. Pretty ugly. All i know is that i’d much rather be up front fighting for control in my last moments than be in the back with nothing to do. I’ve been in a couple of close calls, but i’m always comforted knowing how safe planes are today and how slim the odds are that anything fatal will happen. Lissa, i hope you’re buying lottery tickets!

23

Nah, I’m saving my luck in case I really need it again.

24

There were actually survivors in that crash. It would be interesting to get an eyewitness account of the plane’s final moments, if it wasn’t for the fact that it’d be too hard for me to take.

25

Academicly I know that I’m safer in a plane that I am, statisticly, driving a car, but it still seems to me that we have too many plane crashes.

It’s especially heart-breaking when a crash is caused by shoddy maintenance, worn out parts and the like. I don’t know what we’re doing wrong, but since air travel has become such a large industry, it would seem that somehow we could make it safer.

My mother has always said, a bit toungue-in-cheek, that the safest time to fly would probably be after a major disaster, because all of the maintenance people are on their toes. After a while, do they start slacking off just a bit? Is that why we hear of faulty tailfins, and bolts cracking? How often are planes gone over in minute detail to ensure that every part is in perfect shape?

After the last major crash, I heard a news reporter comment that we have an “aging air fleet.” Why are the airlines so pressed for cash that they must use old, decrepit planes? While a plane probably costs ten million or so, aren’t the airlines making enough profits to phase out elderly planes, or at least replace aging parts and “refit” the plane with safer, better wiring, engines and bolts?

When I last flew abroad, my ticket cost almost a thousand dollars. The plane was almost full, with only a few empty seats. Even with the cost of the fuel, salaries for the flight crew, and other expenses, it seems to me that if every passenger paid almost as much as I did that the flight would have been very lucrative to the airline. Where do the profits go?

26

Ouch! “Shoddy maintenance, decrepit planes, worn parts…”
Certainly, the most heart-breaking part is the human aspect, with all our mistakes and oversights, but I have to throw my 2 cents in.
Sure, we have an “aging” fleet, but there are a few things you have to consider. First, airlines don’t really make that much of a profit. Lots of revenues, sure, but not as much profit as I think the average american thinks (I majored in Aviation at Ohio State in '94, so i’m dredging this up from very dim alcohol-tainted memories, and it may be a little dated). So, not as much $$ to spend on a bunch of new planes, which is a good segue to my second point:

Why does everyone think new=safer? On the surface, you may think, more tech. advanced, better constructed, less wear and tear, etc., but every airframe has a service life, sort of a manufacturer’s guarantee. For the sake of argument let’s say the plane’s life is 30 years. At age 29, people may balk if they’re told they’re about to fly on something that old (especially if one that old has recently been involved in a mishap or crash), but I contend that if the plane has been maintained properly, what you have is a reliable, seasoned plane in which the maintainers have worked out all the little kinks and gremlins. New planes can have many things wrong with them that the maintainers haven’t gotten around to noticing (this has been my experience, anyway).

Finally, by far most crashes are directly attributable to human error, be it pilot or maintainer, which could happen in an old or brand new plane. The JAL 747’s tail snapped off not because it was old or defective, but because a maintainer riveted a single row of rivets instead of a double row of rivets on the aft bulkhead like he should have. Woops. Anyway, that’s my obviously-biased view.

27

Sorry! I didn’t mean to insult the airline industry.

Why didn’t anyone notice? Isn’t there any form of “double checking?” If maintenance is done, is it re-checked by another person, or is it left up to one person to see that it’s done correctly? What happens to the guy who forgot to double-rivet? Is he fired? Sued?

28

It sounds grim and flippant given the situation, but, people make mistakes. Things happen.

Most likely, due to Union Rules, the guy who does it is not fired. And it would be very hard to sue him; even if it was possible what would one get? You can bet Boeing was sued, however.

29

Just to answer your questions, Lissa, the guy simply made a mistake. Should his work have been double checked? Yes. Was it? I don’t know, but subsequent inspections didn’t reveal the mistake because the bulkhead where the work was done was inaccessible (this may raise more questions as to their procedures, but hey, I’m just the messenger here!). The guy was never disciplined, to my knowledge, because 1)the accident happened 7 years after the mistake (metal fatigue doesn’t happen right away), 2)not sure if he was still working w/ the airline, 3)even if so, what’re you gonna do to him? These are the Japanese. His shame must have been (and still is, probably) horrific. 4)Is he really the only guy to blame? The mistake should have been caught somewhere in those 7 years.

And actually, as far as being sued, there were mostly Japanese citizens on board, resulting in very few law suits. Apparently they don’t like a lot of suing over there. Unlike here. Yet another black hole where some of the airline profits wind up.

30

Nope, he was never disciplined. He killed himself before they could get around to it.

Back to the O.P.-

Count me in as a member of the group that thinks that some, if not the majority, of people towards the back of the plane survivied the initial explosion and died on impact with the water.

The way I look at it, if the astronauts were able to survive the explosion of the challenger, then the passengers of TWA 800 could have survived the explosion of their fuel tank too.

The fact that some may have survived (My opinion only, until I can find some info) is probably kept quiet for the same reason that the astronauts fate was kept quiet- it doesn’t look too good.

31

Given the facts there is no doubt in my mind that the majority of the TWA 800 passengers were alive and consious well after the initial explosion. The plane continued upward (without the nose) then began it’s descent toward the sea. When it reached a certain speed the rest of the plane broke up and more passengers may have been killed or gone unconsious then, but it’s pretty much certain that lots of them were alive and awake right up until hitting the water. Watch the first ten minutes of the film Alive to get a feel for what that would be like. Yuck.

32

Its most likely that no one knew what hit them. The force of the explosion decelerated the plain by several hundred miles per hour. Also it blew flight 800 off course up to a mile. This caused ultimate whip lash which means the skull was separated from the spine by the violent forward motion and whip back . The passengers faces were smashed, there legs were broke, it was violent up there. And the few people that did not have broken necks were surely knocked deeply unconscious.

33

11 yr old thread, btw.

34

I am already feeling a little anxious about an upcoming trip overseas. But the excitement about crossing the Atlantic (would I rather sail, row or fly across?) and landing in Paris will win out. Though I did have to change the return date, leaving earlier…and from Madrid instead, on a Friday in the 13th year. :wink:

35

I doubt that the reopening of this thread adds much to the debate. Closed.

samclem moderator