I agree, and I’ve said before in the GA thread that I think we’ve reached “maximum efficiency”. There’s very little leeway in this system, the margins are tight. Not dangerous usually, but unforgiving of error or even minor blips. Problems usually result in losing efficiency, not safety. But when the shit really hits the fan…
As for DCA in particular, I’ve only flown there rarely as a charter pilot. It’s too much of a nuisance for us and the passengers. Much simpler to go into Dulles. My last couple of flights into DCA I remember thinking, “This is really stupid.”
All that maneuvering to avoid any scrap of land. On a visual approach, I remember we were required to turn to avoid the merest little jutting point of land, with nothing at all on it. It was a sandbar barely attached to the mainland. And pilots are asked to maneuver at low level during an approach for that? While our attention was on that we certainly wouldn’t have noticed a helicopter, especially at night.
Get rid of DCA, get rid of Aspen, simplify procedures and admit that we can’t pump many more airplanes into the system. This was bound to happen eventually, no matter how many years we got away with it.
Unless you know something specific about that flight, the idea it’s connected to VIP emergency evacuation training seems fanciful.
The DoD runs what’s almost a scheduled helicopter service between many of the the government’s facilities. And not just DoD facilities. Lots of helos in flight all day every day ferrying folks to and fro to avoid wasting 2 or 3 hours in DC traffic.
This particular helo flight definitely did not have passengers aboard and is being labeled a “training flight”. Maybe just flight proficiency, maybe familiarization with the very complicated helo route structure that runs underneath the airplane route structure. Maybe something else. And yes, maybe VIP evacuation. But sure not the way to bet.
The Army mentioned it as one of the reasons for missions of this type.
So, my speculation is that the training mission was partly in support of CoG, because that’s a good reason to be at DCA.
Or they could have just been getting in their monthly flight hours in the dead of the night in one of the most overcrowded air spaces in the Capitol region.
Closing DCA is a hasty response-- I’m pretty sure the helicopter is at fault here. I have seen helicopters along the Potomac, flying beneath airlines maybe a couple hundred feet apart many times.
This particular helicopter did something wrong, either not enough separation, or confused by lights, etc.
The investigation is just beginning. It will take awhile before its known why the accident happened.
The 74 Youtube channel posted a video 3 days ago. A military jet running out of fuel needed help from air controllers to land quickly.
The difference in military navigational equipment created some confusion. The jet did land safely. But he was very close to a fuel emergency over a city.
I’m not suggesting any fault with the tragic passenger jet and chopper accident. Wait for the investigation.
I won’t try to summarize the alphabet soup in this video. The person commenting on the air traffic audio is a 747 pilot and can explain it much better.
24 mins but the first 10 gives a clear picture of a civilian air controller helping a military pilot land. The different navigational tech creates challenges. The air controller did a great job getting this pilot safely down.
Some of the air controller audio prior to the American Airlines, chopper collision has been posted.
That’s why it’s important to understand there is a difference in the military navigational tech. It’s not better or worse. Just different because the military has different mission requirements.
I feel so bad for the victims families. What they’re experiencing now is unimaginable.
Man, I’m right there with you. I haven’t flown since 2013, also not for fear just mostly lack of time and money and destinations (I’m perfectly happy to vacation within an 8 hour drive). I’ve been putting off buying tickets to go to LA for my partner’s bestie’s wedding, and finally made the purchase yesterday morning. I had the exact same thought as you. Gulp.
One of my connections is at SFO, which someone kindly pointed out upthread was the site of the last domestic site of an airline crash in the US.
To be fair, the FAA under Biden did remove the requirement for a college degree, but the training and performance standards remained rigorous and strict, and the role of ATC in this incident is still very unclear.
Yeah, sounds like we’re in the same boat (that is, if the boat was a plane ).
I don’t want to hijack a breaking news thread anymore than I already have with my initial post, so maybe I’ll start a ‘nervous flyer’ thread, or feel free to PM me if you’d like to commiserate further!
I will say this: I did the math. Velocity said upthread:
There are 45,000 commercial flights in the US per day. I’ll round that down to an estimated average 40,000 / day since 2009.
15 years since is 5,475 days.
5,475 X 40,000 flights per day = 219,000,000 flights between accidents. Astronomically great odds (or astronomically bad if you’re playing the lottery).
What I’m noticing is that on the RWNJ sites they’ve started using “DEI Hire” to mean any minority, and as a pejorative. Like, even the clerk at a 7-11 who happens to be black would be called a DEI hire.
OK, well, still that makes it according to my math around 146,000,000 flights between accidents in the US. Still a pretty great safety record.
And I didn’t look up the 2009 and 2014 incidents you mentioned, but I did read that the last crash in the US that was as bad in terms of loss of life as this one, and the last major US crash I personally remember off the top of my head, was the Rockaway crash in 2001, a few months after 9/11. That’s a whopping over 23 years, or ~ 335,800,000 flights since.
I think talking in general about relative airline safety is relevant enough in a breaking news plane crash thread, is it not?
when i read the news this morning, the amount of figure skaters on the plane, caused a bell ring in my head. 1961. there was a plane crash that involved many skaters on the us figure skate team. so eerie.
just horrible for the loved ones of those on the plane and helicopter.
On a broader note, I wonder if it would be better to just close Reagan airport entirely and rely on Dulles for all Washington DC’s air travel needs. With the airport gone, then its space could be converted to a lot of room for apartments, businesses, parks, etc.
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