Passports From Non-Existent Countries

Technically, it’s not a false passport. You are carrying a document that may look like a passport but it: [ul][li]Does not claim to be issued by a government.[/li][li]Will not be used as an official document.[/li][li]Has nothing, whatsoever, to do with Opal.[/li][/ul] The article I saw came from Time back in the 80’s (IIRC) featured a company that did just this. They quoted a state department official who said that this was not illegal so long as you did not use this as an official document (if you got away from a terrorist with the thing they would probably cut you some slack).

All this was, of course, pre 9/11; I have no idea what officialdom would think of it now (still it’s not a forgery–sort of like carrying a $30 bill with a picture of Edison on it).

Not defunct but ‘never existed’. There are over 190 countries in the world, can you list them all? Given my ethnic makeup (European mongrel) I would claim that I was from a small country in northern Europe (practically a city-state). Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. Thing is, you have just given yourself a chance.

In the time period this came up (1980’s) there were a few events where a plane was hijacked and several passengers were set free (as a show of goodwill, to reduce headcount to a more manageable level or whatever). Hijackers are political animals who are protesting something—the nationalities of people who were least to be set free were Israel and the United States. Show some ID that you are from a different country entirely and you might get free.

I would consider this unlikely. You have an airplane with 100+ passengers and who knows how many bags, books, pouches, pockets or other places to stash a passport. The limited manpower of the hijackers is almost certainly not going to be spent doing a search. Of course I may be wrong but that is part of the risk: were you in such a situation you would have to ask yourself if it is worth it or not.

If you don’t attempt to use it to enter a country and/or clear customs, and don’t present it as official ID to any government official, then cite? Section of the Code?

Haven’t you seen the innumerable studies showing how clueless most people are about geography? And it’s not like terrorists/hijackers are some sorts of brainiacs and world scholars - they’re criminal scum that may have some technical training.

I’ll bet if you ask 1,000 people from some random country (or the US) which of these are actual countries which issue individual passports under these names, the vast, vast majority wouldn’t know:

Baja California
Bouvet Oya
Castille
Flanders
Goa
Greenland
Hannover
Jersey
New Brunswick
Persia
Prussia
Quebec
Scotland
Venice
Wales
Yukon

They may not let you go but you might be subject to less abuse during your captivity. And IIRC there have been cases, like GorillaMan said, where Americans had been singled out for extra abuse.

It’s easy to hide/dispose of a real passport. On a plane, slip it into the in-flight magazine. Plus no one talked about carrying an array of passports “in their luggage” like a traveling passport salesman, just a single, fake one to hand to a terrorist.

Hell, I know I’d try handing a terrorist a fake Welsh passport. At that point you got almost nothing to lose.

Or, I could have said “what Threadkiller said” (I left my computer; your post wasn’t there when I was typing) :smack:

Welcome, Martini Enfield!

< 007 >I hope your registering leaves you stirred, not shaken.< /007 >

:smiley:

Thanks very much! At this stage I’m planning on sticking around after my guest membership is up, but I’m kinda secretly hoping that they’ll be offering USD$7.95 membership specials or something, since USD$14.95 is getting towards AUD$20 by the time you factor in the exchange rates and ForEx conversion fees etc… Even so, it’s been a very entertaining few days so far, and I’m not regretting signing up at all.

I’m just trying not to swamp the boards with threads, and I’ve promised myself I’ll stay out of the pit for at least another few days, since I’ve been told I have a Duckman-like tendency to rant uncontrollably if given enough alcohol and a suitably public forum in which to do it… :smiley:

In order:
an old name for the peninsular part of CA
I have no idea
a city in Spain
a state of the old German Empire (or something vaguely ike that – certainly not a country nowadays)
Again, no idea
I think Greenland is an actual country, but we only learn about what Europeans called it when it was discovered
a German city (unless the extra ‘n’ makes a difference)
UKish island, I think not a country
ancient empire, exists with different name and different borders
May or may not still exist
Canadian province
part of UK, though not willingly
Italian city/city-state
Maybe an independent country, I’m not sure
Also a Canadian province

So, without looking up anything, a maximum of 5 countries on that list, but I strongly suspect that every place on there is unable to issue its own passports. And I apologize to inhabitants of the locations described above if my description causes offense. It is not my intent.

I suspect the two on that list which issue identifiably-unique passports are Greenland and Jersey

I bet Québec would like to be able to issue its own passports.

New Brunswick is a Canadian province, not a UK island.

I think dwalin jumped straight from Jersey to Persia

As for hostages being released, there was a case just within the past week where a Palestinian group released a Canadian they had captured specifically because he was Canadian and not American as they had initially thought. Cite

Without looking anything up:

Yes. Bouvet? An island. Isn’t it one of the French Southern and Antarctic Lands?

Castile is a region of Spain.

Flanders is the Flemish part of Belgium.

A state of India, formerly a Portuguese colony. India took it over in the 1950s.

You mean Kalaliit Nunaat?

Right you are, and the difference it makes is between the English and German forms of the same name.

One of the Channel Islands. Technically a dukedom (instead of a kingdom?), and the queen is their duke. You skipped New Brunswick, one of Canada’s Atlantic Provinces.

Persia was a modern empire too, you know. Until Shah Reza changed the name to Iran in the 1930s. I think it was to make Hitler like him better or something because it was etymologically derived from “Aryan.” Ariana Airlines of Afghanistan also pays tribute to the people’s Aryan origin.

Historically Prussia was a kingdom of northern Germany, which extended itself by conquest in the Middle Ages into Baltic territory, and in the 19th century formed the most powerful part of the new state of Germany.

Vous avez raison.

Voting Scots Nationalist, are we?

Right.

Wales got its own regional government recently. It was absorbed by England in the Middle Ages and for many centuries there was no such thing as Wales as a political entity, its legal status was just some more counties of England that got added to England a bit later than the others. But I’d like to know what is currently the status of Wales, since it now seems to have some recognition within the UK of being its own place, not just a subset of England?

I know of it as a territory; has it been promoted to province yet?

But then, I’ve been reading National Geographic all my life.

Although many passports have been sold by unscrupulous parties bearing the banner of the Principality of Sealand, I don’t believe that His Royal Highness Prince Roy has authorized the general sale of passports from that tiny nation. A certain number have been issued to parties engaged in business with Sealand in addition to the indigenous population, but they are not and have never been available strictly for cash.

Stranger

What #@&% indigenous population? Is that some kind of joke? Seagulls, seaweed, and barnacles would about do it for indigenous biota, I imagine.

Wales is Wales. Trying to say “we need a label for this place” is what causes all sorts of arguments about what defines a ‘nation’ and so on. Sometimes it gets described as a ‘principality’, but this doesn’t actually say anything else, without explaining that it’s because of the union of the legal systems blah blah blah. It has a very strong cultural identity, including the realistic survival of the language, but in most other ways is intrinsically tied to England, especially in economic terms.

The creation of the Welsh Assembly wasn’t really any fundamental change, because it basically took over the powers of the Welsh Office. It doesn’t have anything like as much power as the Scottish Parliament, and the opportunity to have these powers was rejected in the referendum which created the Assembly.

One advantage in having a Welsh passport: no potential terrorist is likely to be able to read Welsh. Where do I sign up?

http://www.ukpa.gov.uk/welsh/index.asp

You know, there are a lot of decaffinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

Stranger

Bouvet Island, aka Bouvet Oya, aka Bouvetøya
It’s a somewhat mysterious place.

Where’s Springfield? It’s in the Netherlands.
Why? Because the Simpsons live next door to Flanders.

New Brunswick is also a city in New Jersey.