Passports From Non-Existent Countries

As a long time lurker (two years plus, which may be some kind of record… but probably not), I’ve enjoyed coming here daily to read the boards and generally consider myself all the more enlightened and entertained by the experience.

Indeed, the number of times someone here has posted something which has caused me to spray coffee all over my monitor in laughter is one of the many reasons I’m taking the plunge and registering…

Anyway, about 10 years ago I was reading a certain periodical- published by a certain well-known smoking-jacked wearing gentleman, and containing a number of well-written articles and, shall we say, uplifting pictorials- when I came across (bad choice of words, I know… :smack: ) an article about a company that specialised in providing passports for countries that don’t exist anymore or have changed their names.

The rationale behind this was that if you were a contractor or whatever working in West Africa, or perhaps some of the less civilised parts of Asia or the Middle East, it might be expedient to have a “Backup” passport in the event of a Civil War, Rebel Insurrection, or corrupt government official trying to extort bribes off you. That way, if someone took your “Backup” passport and did a runner with it/held it for ransom, you still had your real passport to wave at the nearest embassy in the hope they could squeeze you onto the last flight out of the country or at least hide you somewhere until the shooting stopped or the Red Cross got there, whichever happened first.

As someone who’s travelled a fair bit himself (although not to anywhere I’m likely to be caught in the crossfire between Government Troops and various Rebel Factions with initials that don’t match up with their name in any known language), I wondered out of idle curiosity if this was even legal, and more importantly, how useful this might be in real life.

I mean, the immigration people at Heathrow Airport are likely to drag you off to a small room with no windows for a friendly chat if you tried gaining entry to the UK using a passport from Portuguese Guinea (especially if you don’t speak Portuguese), but is someone on the border between Angola and the Congo likely to know that there’s no such place as British Honduras anymore?

You have to admit there’s a certain James Bond-esque quality about having a bunch of passports from different countries (all presumably with different names in them, just so you don’t get the government of Mali chasing you up when you get home for attempting to bribe the border guards), but I’m not sure the risks (that you’d find a border guard in some out of the way 3rd world country with a 92% illiteracy rate whose hobby is reading National Geographics in his spare time, and knows full well that Tasmania isn’t allowed to issue it’s own passports) outweigh the advantages (That when a border guard in some out of the way 3rd world country with a 92% illiteracy rate confiscates your passport for not bribing him, it’s not going to mean you’re stuck there until you pay him enough to buy every goat in the country and maybe some of the chickens in the neighbouring republic.)

Anyway, to get to the point: Is it legal to issue passports for places that don’t exist anymore (e.g. British Honduras, Belgian Congo, French Indochina) or couldn’t normally issue their own passports (e.g. Tasmania, Scotland, North Dakota), and assuming it was legal, how useful would it be (besides the novelty value)?

I remember reading about this also. Another reason for this is if the bad guys are holding Americans hostage and letting others go, you can show them your passport from Ceylon.
IIRC the US state dept is OK with this, as long as you use your US passport for legal ID.

Brian

I posted about this a while ago. The idea was that you get a false passport to use with hijackers, they made it plain that it would not be useful for getting through customs.

You know, I hadn’t even considered the whole “Use with Hijackers” thing…

That’s what you get for growing up in New Zealand, where all that sort of thing is happening to “Other People”, “Somewhere Else”, and then moving to Australia, which had much the same attitude until fairly recently…

Hey if you can convince the hijackers that you are from Lower Butfuckistan instead of New Jersey more power to you. :slight_smile: But as you mentioned I would not try using it at Heathrow.

Welcome to the boards BTW. Great name you picked, a drink and a gun. No two things go toghether like a good stiff drink and a bolt action rifle. :smiley:

I seriously doubt that it’s legal anywhere if you try to pass it off as your passport in an official context. Even if you intend to use it for hijackers or similar cases, you might run into trouble in some countries. For example the relevant passage in German law is:

Note that import alone is enough.

Personally I wouldn’t bet my freedom on the assumption that they don’t have a simple binder with pictures of the passports that they accept, just like our border guards.

Thanks for the welcome!

The Martini Enfield is also a rifle… a .303 calibre single shot breechloader used by the British in the 1890s-early 1900s when they were switching from the .45/577 Martini Henry to the .303 Lee-Metford.

The Martini Enfield is the .303 version of the Martini Henry (of Zulu fame), but it also encapsulates two of my favourite things- British Military Firearms and fine alcohol! (Although not at the same time, of course…) :smiley:

Yeah it’s all about being not American. You are the only poster I have ever shot - a Martini Enfield .303 over 800 yards.

I had a Martini Henry with a bull barrel using .222 that I use for roo culling. Seems fairer to me using breech loaders.

Well, a 180gr SP .303 round will stop anything it hits (Mine works brilliantly on wild foxes, pigs, hares, goats, and various other medium-large game), but having a spare 9 rounds in the mag of an SMLE, No 4, or Jungle Carbine is always helpful… :smiley:

Yeah, sure it will be useful.

Some friends of mine were trying to adopt a kid in Vietnam. Everything was ready to go, but the government kept rejecting their paperwork because it lacked the proper stamps- stamps that apparently didn’t exist anywhere in the country. So they went to a stationary shop and bought some gold seals. They stuck those judiciously all over all their paperwork and sent it back in. It went through without a hitch.

I’ve been asked some pointed questions by soldiers in a civil war torn country. Chances are these guys couldn’t read my passport if I gave it to them.

Well, since the only Martini I have ever fired was a drink at some guy’s head… :wink:

I have several friends with dual citizenship who have multiple passports. I always assumed the problem would be entering a country on one passport and exiting on another, which didn’t show an entry stamp for the country you were now leaving.

Then again, nobody seems to pay more than cursory attention to my passport when I trave, even post-9/11. I always assumed that they would do something logical, like stamp the pages in order, so that the stamps lined up chronologically. Hell, no- I have stamps on the same pages that are years apart… :rolleyes:

It’s funny- for a long time, a friend of mine would never dream of travelling on his Irish passport, but now he gets less attention using it than with his US passport! :smiley:

I’ve wondered about this too… certainly, some places don’t stamp your passport at all anymore, just swipe it through a reader, make sure it’s actually the person in the photo and not Carlos The Jackal, and then give it back to you. (Mainly Australia and NZ, but some of the EU countries might do this too).

The last time we came back into Australia (using Australian Passports), my fiancee and I asked the Customs Guy at the airport if he could stamp our passports, since our passports looked so empty without exit/entry stamps. He obliged, but we need to get in some serious travel to some actual Foreign Countries to boost our Stampage, so to speak- my old New Zealand Passport has a heap of cool stamps in it, including my favourite, Channel Tunnel!

Mr. Enfield, I have little to say about the matter at hand, but I sure hope you sign up as a permanent member. I like your writing style.

A few thoughts on the subject.

First, having a false passport is all kinds of illegal. You’re probably increasing your chance of being locked up somewhere by carrying a fake.

Second, you’d have to have a pretty pathetic bunch of kidnappers to have them fooled by a passport from the Ottoman Empire or Austria-Hungary or whatever defunct country you scam a passport from.

Third, even if your kidnappers believe you’re a genuine Siamese or Bohemian or whatever, why would they decide to let you go because of it?

Fourth, what happens when they search your luggage and find you have a bunch of passports with different names and nationalities? Suddenly you’re no longer just a random American, you’re a CIA spy.

I’ll tackle the easy one- it isn’t unheard of for terrorists to target a particular group- Americans, Jews, etc. It’s possible that if that were the case, they would only be interested in keep Americans as hostages.

If you want a real passport from a somewhat interesting questionable place, try Sealand. The whole “Country” consists of gun platform out in the sea near great britain. While it hasn’t been officially recognized by anyone that matters as far as I can tell, it’s probably just as legitimate as what you’re proposing.
http://www.sealandgov.com/

And what’s the terrorist policy on witnesses that have no value as hostages?

Some interesting thoughts here… I can’t see any Terrorist Organisation that can’t even pick an American accent lasting all that long in the grand scheme of things…

  • Terrorist: American?
    American: And Proud Of It!
    BANG
    Terrorist: American?
    American With Dodgy Passport: No, British Somaliland.
    Terrorist: Oh, OK then. Exit’s straight down the corridor, third door on the left.*

Doesn’t seem all that likely now, does it?

From the sounds of it, having a Passport from a country which no longer exists isn’t illegal in and of itself, but the microsecond you use it for anything useful, expect to spend a lot of time in windowless basement rooms becoming acquainted with latex gloves and people with no sense of humour…

There’s been plenty of cases where Americans among a group of hostages have been singled out, either to be killed, or to be held longer while others are released. If you could pass yourself off with false ID, it could help in this situation.