Paul Krugman: Poverty is poison

[Renob]

@CJJ*

The tragedy of this attitude is that–contrary to self-interested right-wing bloviation–social progams can and have made a difference in the poverty rate. Krugman cites how LBJ’s war on poverty had demonstrable results until Nixon was elected, and how Labour governments in Britain have succeeded in cutting poverty in the UK (as measured by US standards) in half over the past 10 years.

What changes were made in U.S. social programs by Nixon? If Krugman’s thesis is correct, that means the Nixon administration must have reversed or at least slowed the anti-poverty measures of LBJ. I can find no example where this is true.

Does he/she think 18 million people are in this dire situation because of simple personal failing, because they just haven’t bothered to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” (or whatever the right-wing cliche is today)? And of those who did manage to escape poverty, is it more likely they became middle class, or part of the working poor?

It doesn’t necesarrily have to be a matter of “personal failing.” It’s a matter of growing up in a culture that doesn’t lead to children being given the necessary tools to escape poverty – delayed gratification, valuing education, hard work, etc. If your culture is one that doesn’t value these things, then it’s not really a matter of “simple personal failing.” It’s a culture of failure that needs to be addressed. How to do so, however, I haven’t a clue.

@brickbacon

If you don’t mind me asking, why were your parents poor when you grew up?

My parents didn’t make much money, but I’d hesitate to say they were poor. We had all the food we needed, a house, a car, and all that. The people my dad worked with, however, made the same amount of money as he did but were constantly struggling. Why? They bought expensive cars they couldn’t afford, they took trips they couldn’t afford, they drank too much, they smoked too much dope (or meth now), they had too many kids, they couldn’t hold a steady job, etc.

We had the same financial resources as these people but my parents had a much different attitude on how to deal with the money they had. They tried not to buy on credit, they paid off their mortgage and car early, they saved their money, etc.

Did you grow up in literal poverty, or were you just less fortunate than other people? What were he causes for this?

I grew up with people who lived in literal poverty. The majority of children in my elementary school received free and reduced lunch. And all I know about the causes were that those kids in these families had parents who had a much different world-view than my parents or the parents of the other kids who weren’t living in poverty.

Are your parent(s) doing better now?

My parents now probably make around $12,000 a year. They have everything they want, though, and lead a middle class life.

[brickbacon]

@CJJ*

Until a large segment of the population recognizes that poverty is significantly shaped by social forces, little will be done to help the poor. The Protestant ethic that forged this nation–the one which believes that God materially rewards the virtuous–attaches a personal-failing stigma to the poor which makes it easy to dismiss them as “bad people”.

I agree. Most people in this country truly believe that you get what you deserve, and that deserve what you get, bad and good. While this is true in many circumstances, it excuses many people from empathizing with those who have been the victims of their upbringing, society, and other circumstances. Even beyond offering money to remedy these circumstances, people are reticent in many circumstances to even offer compassion or good will.

I think the remedies to this problem that most can agree on would be the following:

1. Stop warehousing poor people. Public and low income housing should be spread out and intermingled with regular housing. Whatever the cause of poverty is, putting a bunch of people in the same circumstances tends to be a bad idea.

2. Schools in poor areas should begin to strongly inculcate societal understanding, economic understanding, and cultural expectations and standards. Every school, esp. those in poor areas, should begin giving kids the tools to be successful in this world. Things like food preparation, health, basic finance, diction, etc. I feel strongly that poor kids suffer far more from the absence of proper cultural than they do the occasional missed meal. I don’t say that to minimize the importance of having the basics, but that culture has a far more lasting impact.

3. Schools in poor areas should become more of a community center. They should feed people on the weekend, and provide schooling for adults. Provide anything that can give these people some hope, some assistance, and a break from the terrible circumstances in their life. Many already do some of this, but I would like to see schools become a one-stop shop for people to look for support.

4. Ease drug laws and provide educational opportunities and job training to inmates. We could also provide tax breaks to companies who commit to hiring former inmates. The poor, in general, are most hurt by our justice system. They are the victims of those who re-offend, and the loved ones of those offenders. Much of the misery of living is a poor area is the distrust, the heightened sense of fear, and the sense of isolation created by crime. And that is leaving aside those who are actually victimized. I grew up in the suburbs, and it wasn’t until I moved to the city as an adult that I realized how weird it was to feel afraid to leave your house at night, go into certain areas, or complete commercial interactions through a pane of bullet proof glass. It is just a very different feeling.

5. Force cops to walk the beat. In many cities, cops drive around in cars all night long. Cops need to be on the streets to really prevent crime. They need to know who the drug dealers are, where they hang out, what time the kids get out of school, where they prostitutes do business, etc. You can’t always do all that riding around with a partner in a car responding to incidents.

6. Move forward with universal health care, free higher education, and subsidized early child care.

[brazil84]

@brickbacon

I think the remedies to this problem that most can agree on would be the following:

1. Stop warehousing poor people. Public and low income housing should be spread out and intermingled with regular housing. Whatever the cause of poverty is, putting a bunch of people in the same circumstances tends to be a bad idea.

2. Schools in poor areas should begin to strongly inculcate societal understanding, economic understanding, and cultural expectations and standards. Every school, esp. those in poor areas, should begin giving kids the tools to be successful in this world. Things like food preparation, health, basic finance, diction, etc. I feel strongly that poor kids suffer far more from the absence of proper cultural than they do the occasional missed meal. I don’t say that to minimize the importance of having the basics, but that culture has a far more lasting impact.

3. Schools in poor areas should become more of a community center. They should feed people on the weekend, and provide schooling for adults. Provide anything that can give these people some hope, some assistance, and a break from the terrible circumstances in their life. Many already do some of this, but I would like to see schools become a one-stop shop for people to look for support.

4. Ease drug laws and provide educational opportunities and job training to inmates. We could also provide tax breaks to companies who commit to hiring former inmates. The poor, in general, are most hurt by our justice system. They are the victims of those who re-offend, and the loved ones of those offenders. Much of the misery of living is a poor area is the distrust, the heightened sense of fear, and the sense of isolation created by crime. And that is leaving aside those who are actually victimized. I grew up in the suburbs, and it wasn’t until I moved to the city as an adult that I realized how weird it was to feel afraid to leave your house at night, go into certain areas, or complete commercial interactions through a pane of bullet proof glass. It is just a very different feeling.

5. Force cops to walk the beat. In many cities, cops drive around in cars all night long. Cops need to be on the streets to really prevent crime. They need to know who the drug dealers are, where they hang out, what time the kids get out of school, where they prostitutes do business, etc. You can’t always do all that riding around with a partner in a car responding to incidents.

6. Move forward with universal health care, free higher education, and subsidized early child care.

Here’s an idea:

1. Do research to see if any of these things have been tried before and see if they actually worked. If they didn’t work, then don’t bother with them even though it might make you feel good.

2. Try the others on a limited (geographic) basis and see if they work. If they don’t work, then don’t bother with them.

Here’s an interesting article on the subject. He probably overstates the case, but still it’s worth keeping in mind that a lot of nice ideas just don’t work.

Opinion & Reviews - Wall Street Journal

Versions of every program being proposed in the aftermath of Katrina have been tried before and evaluated. We already know that the programs are mismatched with the characteristics of the underclass. Job training? Unemployment in the underclass is not caused by lack of jobs or of job skills, but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. A homesteading act? The lack of home ownership is not caused by the inability to save money from meager earnings, but because the concept of thrift is alien. You name it, we’ve tried it. It doesn’t work with the underclass.

Perhaps the programs now being proposed by the administration will help ordinary poor people whose socialization is just fine and need nothing more than a chance. It is comforting to think so, but past experience with similar programs does not give reason for optimism–it is hard to exaggerate how ineffectually they have been administered. In any case, poor people who are not part of the underclass seldom need help to get out of poverty. Despite the exceptions that get the newspaper ink, the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive. And behaving self-destructively is the hallmark of the underclass.

[brickbacon]

@brazil84

Here’s an idea:

1. Do research to see if any of these things have been tried before and see if they actually worked. If they didn’t work, then don’t bother with them even though it might make you feel good.

I have done research, and many of the things I’ve mentioned DO work. In fact, they are being done NOW, and have been working. If you want to know more about where and when, let me know. They problem is they take the sustained commitment and resources of government, in many cases, to cause wide spread change.

@brazil84

2. Try the others on a limited (geographic) basis and see if they work. If they don’t work, then don’t bother with them.

I DO many things to improve the neighborhood I live in, but I am only one person. I cannot TRY a program that would cost millions of dollars and require thousands of people.

@brazil84

Here’s an interesting article on the subject. He probably overstates the case, but still it’s worth keeping in mind that a lot of nice ideas just don’t work.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007348

Please. Most of what this guy says is ridiculous. Some examples:

Unemployment in the underclass is not caused by lack of jobs or of job skills, but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work.

Really? Do you really believe this? Yes, there are plenty of lazy people, but most professional jobs require a college degree, and if you don’t have that, you probably won’t get it. Yes, one could probably find a job somewhere, but

The lack of home ownership is not caused by the inability to save money from meager earnings, but because the concept of thrift is alien.

Really? Here is a list of housing prices in a handful of cities around the country. The median housing price in DC is 365k. Tell me how a poor person can afford that. A decent down payment and closing costs would be at least 50k. Do you really think the average poor person can save 50k even with the best of intentions?

I do agree with him about the absence of fathers, but that doesn’t mean the poor, even those from broken families, cannot be helped.

[brazil84]

@brickbacon

I have done research, and many of the things I’ve mentioned DO work.

I would love to see cites.

I DO many things to improve the neighborhood I live in, but I am only one person. I cannot TRY a program that would cost millions of dollars and require thousands of people.

I was under the impression that you were advocating for things that the government should do.

Really? Do you really believe this? Yes, there are plenty of lazy people, but most professional jobs require a college degree, and if you don’t have that, you probably won’t get it.

I believe it to a certain extent. As I said, my business brings me into contact with a lot of different people, and I’ve noticed that many lower class people have a really hard time organizing their lives enough to honor basic obligations, such as getting to work on time; paying bills on time; etc.

Really? Here is a list of housing prices in a handful of cities around the country. The median housing price in DC is 365k. Tell me how a poor person can afford that.

Probably they couldn’t. And most middle class people couldn’t either. The difference is that middle class people can go to their parents, aunts, uncles, whomever, and finagle the money for a down payment. Plus their credit is usually much better, so they can typically buy a house on much more favorable terms.

I do agree with him about the absence of fathers, but that doesn’t mean the poor, even those from broken families, cannot be helped.

I think it’s likely they can be helped (and have been helped), but as I say, it should be done in an intelligent way.

[elucidator]

It is entirely reasonable to assume that most people are poor for lack of choice, it is also entirely reasonable to assume that most people are poor due to lack of motivation, moral depravity, and/or fecklessness. Hence, it is most reasonable to assume that both conditions apply.

So. How to sort them out? Who is wise enough to judge? Perhaps God but She is notoriously unavailable for consultation. Do we simply shrug it off, gee, its too bad our system is so unjust to the deserving poor, but can’t be helped, we simply cannot live with the notion of supporting the lazy.

We can’t? We don’t seem to have any issues with tolerating the underserving rich, persons whose wealth is simply a matter of an astute judgement in selecting parents. Conversely, we have little problem punishing those who choose feckless and maladjusted parents, let them deal drugs, or apply for early admission to our fine penitentiary system.

If we are going to help the deserving, we are going to help the undeserving. Get over it.

[Oregon_sunshine]

Your response seems to me to come from someone who feels some sort of middle-class guilt at not being poor or having any experience with it.

LOL. I wish. I was born poor, raised poor, and continue to be poor. There is no middle-class guilt or any other kinds of middle-class emotions in me because I have never been middle class! That’s where I’m coming from.

nstead of blowing my mone on short-term gratification, I actually chose to plan for my long-term needs.

And my point was, if all your income goes to survival(and for most poor people, mere survival takes more than your income allows), and you occasionally get an unexpected windfall once in a while, you’re not going to be able to “choose” to plan long-term. There is no long-term if you’ve been scratching by in misery for months or years then suddenly get just enough money for some immediate relief/pleasure. Your statement shows that you have likely not experienced serious poverty for any length of time. You think you’re better than someone else because of being able to do something (plan for the future) which is impossible to do when you are actually poor.

[brazil84]

@Oregon sunshine

LOL. I wish. I was born poor, raised poor, and continue to be poor. There is no middle-class guilt or any other kinds of middle-class emotions in me because I have never been middle class! That’s where I’m coming from.

Please indulge my curiousity: what is your job? What are/were your parents’ jobs? what is your highest level of education? what kind of car do you drive (year, make, and model)? Do you use a bank account or a check cashing center? Do you have credit cards?

[Lemur866]

@Oregon sunshine

And my point was, if all your income goes to survival(and for most poor people, mere survival takes more than your income allows)

But if this is true, why aren’t they dead?

If people are on the ragged edge of survival due to poverty, chance would demand that one robbery or missed day of work and people would slip over that edge, and survival would be impossible. And that’s just if survival requires everything, if survival requires more than you earn, then you’re sure to be dead.

We clearly aren’t using words in the same way.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@elucidator

It is entirely reasonable to assume that most people are poor for lack of choice, it is also entirely reasonable to assume that most people are poor due to lack of motivation, moral depravity, and/or fecklessness. Hence, it is most reasonable to assume that both conditions apply.

I think this is a good point–for adults. But won’t somebody please think of the children?

I say that only half-joking. Thing is, I confront the kids every day, and it sucks. I have kids in my classroom who are really smart, but they live in what passes for projects in our city (and every year they seem to get worse; our city is in the middle of gangification in certain areas). When I watch the wealthy kids in my class hand in all their homework, say “please” and “thank you,” do extra work just for the joy of learning, and follow all the classroom rules, I know that these are kids who are going to follow in their parents’ footsteps. When I watch the poor kids neglect their homework, mouth off to me, screw around during class unless i’m constantly riding their asses, and break rules while watching me out of the corner of their eye, I know these are kids who are going to follow in their parents’ footsteps.

Some of my kids get a hot breakfast every morning. Some of my kids count themselves lucky to swig Pepsi from the bottle before coming to school. No, that’s not an exaggeration; that’s a recent depressing conversation.

Do we hold these kids accountable for their behavior now? Do we say, “too bad you’re screwing up in the second grade and fucking up your future education by getting behind; sucks to be you”? I doubt anyone here thinks we should do that.

But then what do we do? How do we get these kids out of their shitty situation?

I’m seriously not proposing answers, and I want the Shodans and renobs of the thread to realize that. I’m interested in hearing about some specific ideas that can get these kids out of their situation. I think if there is a way to solve the problem–and I think there must be–it’s worth devoting a tremendous amount of our nation’s energy toward doing so.

Daniel

[ralph124c]

@brazil84

Here’s an idea:

1. Do research to see if any of these things have been tried before and see if they actually worked. If they didn’t work, then don’t bother with them even though it might make you feel good.

2. Try the others on a limited (geographic) basis and see if they work. If they don’t work, then don’t bother with them.

Here’s an interesting article on the subject. He probably overstates the case, but still it’s worth keeping in mind that a lot of nice ideas just don’t work.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007348

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, builders flooded into NOLA (to rebuild the city). Most couodn’t find people willing to work! Why was it that most of the reconstruction jobs were taken by outsiders!

[elucidator]

You think you can just pick anyone off the street and hand them a framing hammer?

[Shodan]

@Oregon sunshine

If money only comes to you in sporadic windfalls instead of a reliably adequate source, of course you’re going to run through it like there’s no tomorrow - no point in saving it because you may never see another windfall to be able to make the first windfall count for anything.

You do realize, do you not, that this makes no sense whatever?

“I may never get another windfall, so I may as well blow this one” is exactly the sort of thinking that perpetuates poverty.

@BlinkingDuck

These people have a culture that hurts them educationally and little/no role models to follow. These people need help, a rope/hand reaching down into their hole so they can grab on and lift themselves up.

Well, if it is really their culture, they aren’t going to be grabbing any ropes until their culture changes. IOW, the biggest favor the government could do them would be to eradicate whatever culture they are part of that teaches them not to value the things that lead to escaping poverty - education, delayed gratification, avoiding having children out of wedlock, etc.

@CJJ*

When I read Shodan’s dismissive summary of the above as “According to the article, it is neither rare nor exceptional to escape poverty. More than half do so,” I have to wonder if he/she realizes just what the poverty line is, or the fact that approximately 37 million Americans live below it.

Krugman’s definition in the article was living in the bottom quartile of income, and his own article mentions that most who start there don’t stay there (except for black people, according to his claim).

I fail to see what your objection is to my point.

Does he/she think 18 million people are in this dire situation because of simple personal failing, because they just haven’t bothered to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” (or whatever the right-wing cliche is today)?

Well, as mentioned, most poor people in the US do not stay poor. So, for the majority, there is no point in wondering why they remain poor, because they don’t, as Krugman admits.

But most people who remain poor in the long term do so because they cannot/do not achieve things that are not particularly difficult.

I have posted this before. A poor person in the US needs to accomplish four tasks with his or her life -[ul][li]Get married and stay married. Divorce is a highly effective method to drive down income, especially for women and children. (Most divorces in the US are not caused by domestic abuse, so don’t bother with the screaming about that particular straw man.) And the correlation between single motherhood and chronic welfare dependency is one of those facts too obvious to require a cite.[]Do not have children out of wedlock.[]Graduate from high school.[*]Get a job, any job, and stick with it for at least a year, and do not quit the job until you have a better job lined up.[/ul]If you are poor, do these things for at least five years, and you have a better than 99% chance of not being poor at the end of it. (Cite, although this is common knowledge). [/li]

And of those who did manage to escape poverty, is it more likely they became middle class, or part of the working poor?

People tend to rise in income as they age, with the peak earning years being 45-54. But you are correct, they tend to pass thru the “working poor” class as their incomes rise.

Poor people are at least as likely to rise two or more income quintiles as one (Cite.)About five percent make it all the way into the top quintile.

Regards,
Shodan

[Renob]

@Oregon sunshine

And my point was, if all your income goes to survival(and for most poor people, mere survival takes more than your income allows), and you occasionally get an unexpected windfall once in a while, you’re not going to be able to “choose” to plan long-term. There is no long-term if you’ve been scratching by in misery for months or years then suddenly get just enough money for some immediate relief/pleasure. Your statement shows that you have likely not experienced serious poverty for any length of time. You think you’re better than someone else because of being able to do something (plan for the future) which is impossible to do when you are actually poor.

If you think that thinking long-term is only about saving money (or only involves monetary decisions) then you’ve missed my point. Thinking long-term means avoiding pregnancy at a young age or with some sort of dirtbag (drug dealer, someone who can’t hold a job, someone who is involved with someone else), finishing school, not flipping out at the boss when he or she yells at you for something you didn’t do so you can keep your job, not giving into the temptation to drown your sorrows with alcohol or smoke them away with crack or meth, etc. It’s not only about saving money (although that is an element to it) but about making good decisions.

I know you want to make excuses for the poor and say that they can’t do it. Looking at the immigrants that come to the U.S. you see that it’s quite possible to rise from poverty within a generation. Many of them come here with much less than the so-called poor within this country. Through very, very hard work and much delayed gratification they succeed in spite of language issues and other social prejudices. Talk to any Ethiopian cab driver in DC about institutional poverty and you’ll get an idea about what I’m trying to say.

[ralph124c]

. Stop warehousing poor people. Public and low income housing should be spread out and intermingled with regular housing. Whatever the cause of poverty is, putting a bunch of people in the same circumstances tends to be a bad idea.
American cities have spent BILLIONS on public housing-how come these places get trashed? The city of St. Louis demolished several high rise housing projects, because the tenants had made them unliveable!
2. Schools in poor areas should begin to strongly inculcate societal understanding, economic understanding, and cultural expectations and standards. Every school, esp. those in poor areas, should begin giving kids the tools to be successful in this world. Things like food preparation, health, basic finance, diction, etc. I feel strongly that poor kids suffer far more from the absence of proper cultural than they do the occasional missed meal. I don’t say that to minimize the importance of having the basics, but that culture has a far more lasting impact. I agree, but firts the poor HAVE to attend school-the dropout rate in Boston high schools is >60% (and this is FREE education!)

3. Schools in poor areas should become more of a community center. They should feed people on the weekend, and provide schooling for adults. Provide anything that can give these people some hope, some assistance, and a break from the terrible circumstances in their life. Many already do some of this, but I would like to see schools become a one-stop shop for people to look for support.

4. Ease drug laws and provide educational opportunities and job training to inmates. We could also provide tax breaks to companies who commit to hiring former inmates. The poor, in general, are most hurt by our justice system. They are the victims of those who re-offend, and the loved ones of those offenders. Much of the misery of living is a poor area is the distrust, the heightened sense of fear, and the sense of isolation created by crime. And that is leaving aside those who are actually victimized. I grew up in the suburbs, and it wasn’t until I moved to the city as an adult that I realized how weird it was to feel afraid to leave your house at night, go into certain areas, or complete commercial interactions through a pane of bullet proof glass. It is just a very different feeling. I agree-all drugs should be immediately legalized.

5. Force cops to walk the beat. In many cities, cops drive around in cars all night long. Cops need to be on the streets to really prevent crime. They need to know who the drug dealers are, where they hang out, what time the kids get out of school, where they prostitutes do business, etc. You can’t always do all that riding around with a partner in a car responding to incidents. I agree-but first, there has to be some modicum of respect for the law.

6. Move forward with universal health care, free higher education, and subsidized early child care. We already have “free” healthcare for the poor-it is called the “emergency room”. Why make college “free”; if 60% of the kids won’t attend HS?

[bump]

@ralph124c

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, builders flooded into NOLA (to rebuild the city). Most couodn’t find people willing to work! Why was it that most of the reconstruction jobs were taken by outsiders!

I’ll second this; when I was in NOLA in the summer of 2005, one of our demolition contractors was complaining that they couldn’t find enough workers, even at a wage somewhere around $9/hr. And this isn’t for skilled demolition (like with asbestos or something), this was for guys with sledgehammers and sawzalls taking shit apart wholesale, and hauling it off.

Yet… while out and about during the day in the work week, it was NOT uncommon at all to see many working-aged people sitting on their porches drinking beer giving me the stink-eye at 2 o’clock in the afternoon.

I couldn’t help but wonder why they were sitting on their asses glaring at me, instead of working somewhere.
And on a slightly different note, I ride public transit with a bunch of people who are probably borderline poor; sometimes it’s hard to be sympathetic to someone’s plight, when it looks like the main reason they’re poor is because their money goes into their gold teeth, their pimped-out cars, and into wearing $150 worth of Sean John & Rocawear stuff (by comparison, I’m usually wearing about $60 bucks worth of Old Navy & Land’s End stuff; and I work in a relatively professional office).

I think that’s one of the biggest reasons for the lack of sympathy that you see among many people- MANY people have a hard time wanting to help poor people who (from their perspective) seem to squander what they already have.

[elucidator]

Educate the children to the extent of their capacity and interest. Education builds better citizens, if it works well as a vocational school, that’s a bonus. A smarter country is simply better. Duh.

[elucidator]

@bump

…when it looks like the main reason they’re poor is because their money goes into their gold teeth, their pimped-out cars, and into wearing $150 worth of Sean John & Rocawear stuff (by comparison, I’m usually wearing about $60 bucks worth of Old Navy & Land’s End stuff; and I work in a relatively professional office)…

How do you know they’re poor, if they are wearing this nice stuff? After all, you take the same bus, no?

And how can you see their “pimped out cars” if they’re on the bus? Do they have somebody driving it alongside so they can point it out to you?

Needs more information. Next time, walk right up to one of them and ask “How much money you got”? Bound to start an engaging conversation, report back with data.

[brazil84]

@elucidator

How do you know they’re poor, if they are wearing this nice stuff? After all, you take the same bus, no?

And how can you see their “pimped out cars” if they’re on the bus? Do they have somebody driving it alongside so they can point it out to you?

Based on my personal experience and observations, there’s a lot of truth to this. i.e. working poor people who spend lots of money on cars etc. And it’s not just looking at people and assuming they are poor – it’s based on self-reported financial situations of people.

[furlibusea]

@bump

And on a slightly different note, I ride public transit with a bunch of people who are probably borderline poor; sometimes it’s hard to be sympathetic to someone’s plight, when it looks like the main reason they’re poor is because their money goes into their gold teeth, their pimped-out cars, and into wearing $150 worth of Sean John & Rocawear stuff (by comparison, I’m usually wearing about $60 bucks worth of Old Navy & Land’s End stuff; and I work in a relatively professional office).

I think that’s one of the biggest reasons for the lack of sympathy that you see among many people- MANY people have a hard time wanting to help poor people who (from their perspective) seem to squander what they already have.

I think part of the problem is that advertising doesn’t stop at the ghetto. The population sees the ads and wants the stuff too. I have kids in my classroom every day whos parents will NOT buy them school supplies, but will drop 150 bucks for some pair of sneekers every six months. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it, but I think I am beginning to understand.

1. Saving to get ahead works well, unless you are on welfare. If you are, saving is penalized. If you get caught saving, not only do you you lose your health care your income. I have one student who told me she wasn’t allowed to participate in a jobs program because she could loose her check. She has huge medical issues and is unlikely to be able to get farther away from her parent’s house than a group home. How can you understand savings if this is what you know. Remember, we all tend to spend in reaction to how our parents did.

2. Most of these kids never see anyone that got out by saving. The people who get out move. The people they see who look like them that made it are rap stars or basket ball players. Saving and earning your way out seems to be a bigger fairy tale than Oprah because they can’t see it. We also really need to quit telling them that teachers are poor. Maybe we do not make the money that other professions make, but in relation to the kids I deal with in the inner city, I am not poor by a degree they do not even understand.

3. They want to be successful so they dress for the kind of success they see, ie. rap star or basketball player.

4. They have a culture that wears its wealth, which has always been true for nomadic cultures, which they tend to be in a really odd way, with moves every few months. We figure 1/3 of students in the district will not finish a school year in the same school they started. It would be a perfectly valid way of storing wealth if it was stuff that kept its value.

People do things for economic reasons because they make sense to them. If we only judge and don’t understand the resoning behind it we can’t really help.