PC Gaming general discussion (Gaming PCs, game sales, news, etc...)

Quick update: Plugged in the power and video cables (but not internet) and fired it up. Successful POST, bios sees all the hardware it’s supposed to see and sees them all correctly, all the fans are running at reasonable RPMs, all the temperature readings seem reasonable (low 30s), everything looks good.

Last time this part was fun and exciting and a joyful learning experience. This time feels like work. All the fun this time was in ordering the parts. Assembling this thing and now setting up Windows (I just left it sitting there to go smoke when it asked for my windows key) and then installing Office and getting my email set up and the background pictures and… I’m not sure what I was thinking buying this thing.

Of interest is I decided to plug both computers into the same power strip for setup, with different cables (DisplayPort and HDMI) connecting them to the single monitor. Works great, and switching between them is pretty cool. But before I did that I googled around to make sure that that’s safe, plugging multiple computers into the same surge protector.

Turns out that way lies madness. There is a yawning chasm of a rabbit hole about the worthlessness of surge protectors, and how modern electronics are probably safer plugged directly into the wall. No surge protector you buy and plug into the wall will ever protect you from a lightning strike, and the internal power supply of computers and phones has better surge protection than your typical surge protector anyway. In some cases, a surge protector could actually make it worse than just plugging directly into the wall.

Or at least that’s the sense I started to get when I decided ‘fuck this’ and just felt secure that I could plug two computers into the same surge protector without issue. Especially such a low power machines as mine. I wish I wasn’t aware of that rabbit hole, but you know what they say, misery loves company. Please to enjoy.

EDIT: I am no longer expecting to replace the case fans with PWM fans, by the way. I’m pretty sure the fan I hear the clearest is the cooler. In any case, they’re all very quiet. I can barely hear it; pretty much on par with the new video card I can’t stand because it’s not silent. Impressively quiet, actually.

Higher end graphics cards prices dropped this week, as in Nvidia lowered MSRP on them. 3050s unchanged, and probably 3060s as well. 3070 maybe, but definitely 3080 and 3090, the latter of which dropped $500 I think. The problem is that if you’ve been holding out for a high end card, it might make more sense to keep waiting for the 40 series. As for AMD I would assume they will have to react by dropping their prices too.

As for my new computer, turns out I got hot garbage for a motherboard. It’s voltage limited at 95 watts for the CPU, so it’s really only passably tolerable for a 12100 running a non-gaming workstation. Anything more than that and the motherboard throttles the CPU. That was some poor research on my part. I didn’t locate this warning until I had to find a network driver online. The internet is now working, but this was kind of a bummer. No wonder it was priced like a 610. (Here’s a YouTube video titled Buyers Beware: The Worst Intel B660 Motherboard, ASRock B660M-HDV.)

Heard a rumor on The WAN Show that TSMC is not letting Nvidia back out of chip orders on their 5nm wafers… As long as there is no new surge in mining, this could be fantastic news for those of us who are waiting for the 4080s. Prices could be reasonable, maybe even better than that. Could make the upgrade required on the PSU not hurt as much.

Sorry to hear about the MB, that sucks.

Granted people will likely be waiting a bit longer since it sounds like TSMC is letting Nvidia delay shipment of chips until Q1 2023. So if Nvidia is sitting on a stockpile of chips now, I’d expect them to push off the 4000 series launch as long as possible. “Possible” also being affected by a new AMD gen launch and investors who want to see Nvidia pumping out new tech to buy.

Do we have a sense when the next generation AMD video cards might be coming to market?

Supposedly Q4 2022 though, if Nvidia delays, AMD might as well. I’m sure they also have old chips to move and a later delay means more time to develop drivers and iron out bugs.

On the other hand, hard to see either being excited about missing the holidays.

Mind you, a “launch” typically starts with the high end cards and trickles down. So you could see an RTX 4090 and RX 7900 launch this year just to say they did it but mid-range cards not come out until April/May of 2023.

Good point about holiday season.

Hey you know what would be a really cool feature that annoyingly doesn’t exist? Take a USB C cable like you charge a phone with (or plug in an xbox controller with) and use it to connect two computers together, like a warp speed serial cable.

Amazingly enough, that isn’t possible on Windows. I find that mildly irritating. More irritating is that I think you actually can do that with macs, but using the Thunderbolt connector instead of USB C. (Same form factor, similar speed, and Thunderbolt handles USB C just fine. It just has more features.)

Workstation all finished, set up just like I like it. It’s blazingly fast as a workstation, so despite side-eyeing the motherboard, I’m pretty stoked.

Temps are fine but it’s essentially always at idle so of course temps are fine.

The price of the Meta/Oculus Quest 2 is going up by $100 on a couple of days (both versions). So if you were on the fence before, this is the time to buy one.

September 27th will be an interesting day as both Intel and AMD will release their new chips, Intel’s 13th gen Raptor Lake CPUs and AMD’s competing Ryzen 7000 CPUs. Raptor Lake will work on the same Socket 1700 boards that support the current 12th gen (as is typical for Intel, requiring a new board every other generation) and Ryzen 7000 will require an all new board after many years of legacy compatibility with their old socket. While you can get Socket 1700 boards that still work with DDR4 memory, it sounds as though the new AMD boards will be DDR5 only. Fortunately, memory prices have been in a slide lately though that could temporarily reverse once the new chips are out and people need to buy memory to upgrade.

Looking like time to move off from my i7-9700k platform (which currently falls behind the lower end i5-12100 CPU and will quite possibly be in i3-13xxx territory for the 13th gen chips)

Well, the timing in my last post was off (not my fault!) but all the new lines of chips are out now and the i5-13600k seems to be getting universal praise as the sweet spot in value vs performance and the top choice for gamers looking to upgrade. Boosted in part by the fact that it works on 600-series motherboards (might need a BIOS update) and with DDR4 memory so you can keep the costs down much easier than with the new AMD chips.

If someone’s looking to build or upgrade, that looks like a good direction. Naturally, I picked up the i7-13700k before getting the reviews but, hey, mine is even better! (…if not as much “value” per dollar)

I’m still rocking an i7 8700k from my build 3.5 years ago, and the ONLY game that stresses it at all is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, which can be notoriously CPU-bound. Even so, I run a mix of High/Ultra settings on a 1440 and get a very serviceable (for flight) 35-50 fps.

But I know upgrading my nVidia RTX 2060 to, say, a 3080 isn’t likely to bring a huge FPS boost by itself, but I’m dreading going through the whole motherboard/RAM/cooler update again. Despite having built a half-dozen PCs, I’m just not as adventurous as I was (but, who is?).

The difference between an 8600k and 12600k in Flight Sim looks to be about 14-18fps. I know the 8700k is better than the 8600k but the 13600k is better than the 12600k so good enough for rough work. It’s perfectly reasonable to think that 16fps isn’t worth a new processor and board, even if you reuse the DDR4. Plus tests were done on a 3090 (so the CPU wouldn’t be throttled by the GPU) and you might see less impressive results with the 2060.

I’m upgrading from a 9700k, mainly for funsies and because I’m seeing my processor getting beaten in benchmarks by more budget level processors these days.

Do you overclock?

I think overclocking in general is becoming less useful as the stock clock speeds keep going up. But I think the basic idea is that a 600 model has the most headroom for overclocking, and so will always be the best value if you put in the headache of tuning it. Or you could just get a 700 model and have it be that fast out of the box, or even a little bit faster if you overclock that. But not as much; the higher the model, the less headroom and therefore less benefit you get from overclocking.

I think I have that right. Corrections welcome. If so, I guess you could think of the price difference between the 600 and 700 as being (effectively) a perfect overclocking of the 600, only the 700 runs much cooler, uses much less power, and is more stable than a highly overclocked 600. Seems worth it if you have the money.

My 9700k has been running at a consistent 5GHz for years. Base is 3.6GHz. With a 240mm AIO, it runs about 35C for light usage (like now) and maybe 50-60C when gaming.

I agree that overclocking is less of a thing with power draw and heat reducing headroom for the average user and boost frequencies reaching what you’d be overclocking to anyway. More of a hobbyist/tinkering thing than a “It’s like a whole new CPU” thing these days.

If you are replacing the motherboard, RAM, cooling system, and graphics card, possibly the power supply as well, isn’t it basically just better (and cheaper) to buy a new PC? I mean assuming you aren’t just upgrading like that because you like the technical challenge.

When new video card prices were at their peak, it actually did make excellent sense to buy a new (quality) pre-built, as the system price wasn’t that much more over the (then inflated) market GPU price.

But now GPU prices are, at least, back to MSRP. I would like the plug-and-play simplicity of being a quality pre-built, but…complications. I have 3 additional drives right now on top of my boot drive; I am guessing that physically moving and connecting those into the new case should be a 10 minute job, and things should be hunky dory (though I would still need to transfer over all my personal data that Microsoft loves to store on the boot drive User folder.

So, a possibility for certain.

I feel like buying all new parts and a new case and assembling a new computer is much easier than trying to upgrade a motherboard in an existing system. Taking everything apart just seems like so much work. Putting it together less so.

I just switched out the CPU/MB in my computer and it’s not terrible but not much quicker than starting from scratch either. Well, depends on how organized you are – this way I didn’t spend twenty minutes rooting through parts bins for a couple SATA cables. Yes, you get a couple of SATA cables with the new board but not enough for my legion of SSD devices. This build gave me reason to retire my final HDD that was just running generic storage duty for old files, pics, etc. It’s 6TB of pure silicon now!

For anyone who might find themselves with a 13th gen processor, I can’t speak for the i5s but the i7s and i9s run with no power limiter out of the box. This means you’ll probably have higher temperatures and more power consumption than you really need. It’s a fairly easy fix in BIOS but it’s also dumb that they’re not power limited by default and leave it up to the intrepid overclocker to exceed the limits. My best Cinebench scores came after setting power limits and a mild undervolt – out of the box it would hit 100C immediately upon starting the test, drop from 5.4GHz to 3.8GHz due to overheating, then putter along between 3.8 and 4.2 depending on how close it was to the 100C thermal limit. That’s stupid behavior and Intel deserves a crack across the knuckles of it. And/Or the board manufacturers but I assume they’re working off Intel’s spec.

I’m seriously wondering though about prebuilts with 13th gen chips and if they’re going to be unlimited or if Dell, HP, etc will be smart enough to correct this during assembly. Not terribly optimistic.

Nice, gratz! I found pulling the drive cage out of my case to be cathartic. It’s so nice having no spinning drives at all.