sweet! finally we hear from the other side; good deal Finn
I don’t like this logic; it takes as an axiom that having facts kept from you is a bad thing, which I don’t believe. The only time it’s intrinsically a bad thing is when they are facts that you have a right to know, and that’s a sticky place: who determines what you have a right to know? IMO, there are very few situations in which you have an absolute ‘right to know’ (for example, health matters, and matters concerning things you rightfully own); otherwise, this ‘right’ is determined by the holder of the information, based on how well they know and/or like you. If Person A is cheating on Person B, Person B does not have a Bob-given ( ;)) Right to Know just because that information exists and I possess it and I know Person B-- Person B earns that right by being on my good side, not having cheated on Person A prior to that, etc upon etc.
It’s also worth noting that no matter how noble someone’s intentions are, if they hurt you by telling you the unabridged truth, they still hurt you.
You’re absolutely right. But then, would you really even trust a person who says they never lie? I trust my friend, but I don’t think that there’s absolutely NO situation in which he would lie, because he’s not a robot, and how do I know his conditions for exceptions? Therefore I put about as much trust in him as I do any other human being, on average, and I expect the same from him.
Excellent point, if (again) you assume that you can trust someone 100% of the time just because they say you can, and I simply don’t. The problem is, you CAN’T be sure, so really, what good does his policy do him? (…but then of course, he wouldn’t be concerned with such selfish notions… :rolleyes: )
And even if I did assume that he means what he says all the time, how does that get prepackaged as ‘good’? If we’re at my parents’ house eating and my parents say “how’s the food?” and he insults it in the interest of being truthful, how does saying “oh, well, at least he meant what he said” make it any better? Or, to use a situation on which we actually disagreed (not to be confused with one that actually occurred as described), how about if he was living with a SO who was temporarily financially dependent on him and he told her as soon as the whim struck him that he was no longer in love with her and didn’t want to live with her anymore, knowing that she currently had nowhere else to go? Does the fact that he meant what he said alleviate her situation in the slightest??
I think I am going to have to stick to the unpopular viewpoint here. Your friend doesn’t sound like a dick, just, well, different.
I think that it might be argued that whenever facts are kept from you, reality is kept from you unless you uncover the ‘deception.’ I think that reality, harsh and unvarnished, is in-and-of-itself a decent goal.
It doesn’t seem all that sticky to me: if something is true, even if it might hurt someone, they have a right to know and act on such data.
Let us say instead that everybody has a right to look at the world around them and perceive it as accurately as possible. While you can make a case for a moral/ethical responsibility to inform someone regarding their medical status, I don’t think that the ‘right’ to truth lies in a sphere like that. If anything, it is aesthetic: a choice towards veracity and away from obfuscation.
[quibble] It is a “Bob” given right, the quotes are important [/quibble]
Now, I’d say both Persons A and B have a right to know what the other person is doing, doubly so. First because they shouldn’t be lied to, second because of their implicit contact and connection via a committed relationship.
Regardless of who you’d tell, let’s look at the other half; telling someone ‘dangerous’ facts may hurt them.
I would suggest as a counter argument that nobody can truly be hurt by the truth. Temporarily upset, yes. But a life built on illusions would seem to me to be less conducive to a good life than a life lived for truth.
For instance: if you knew someone who was very happy due to the belief that Universe was created by a Giant Invisible Panda who Loved him very very much. The Panda, according to rumor, also told him which patterns of thought and inquiry were verboten. In this situation, which is better, truth or illusion?
Whee! Then again I don’t hold much faith in absolutes… which brings me to…
Just curious, but does your friend say he never lies, or that he finds lying bad?(the former sounds like a lie, the latter a pattern, do with that what you will)
In any case, as I really can’t believe in absolutes, I personally would feel better placing my trust in someone whose aesthetic at least placed them on the side of giving me the, well, straight dope, even if it was only more-often-than-not.
Let’s assume that you can trust this friend as much as any other person. Then let’s assume that he prefers to tell the truth more often than not. Doesn’t this imply that compared to a generic-and-general-human he would at least be more likely to tell you the truth?
I’d also suggest that self interest is part and parcel of any biological organism’s existence. (along with the desire to breed). Perhaps truth is, in and of itself, of value to your friend?
Does your friend have any social graces?
I’d assume that there are ways of saying that food isn’t to one’s liking without ‘insulting’ it. It would also seem that you could be truthful and still tactful and simply respond with “I’m enjoying the meal”… true if the company is good, even if the food is lousy.
What if he said that he no longer loved her and that he didn’t want to sleep with her but that he would certainly be willing to support her, as he already had such an obligation, until she could get on her feet and get her own place?
Or.
Let’s say his SO had nowhere to go, and would leave the moment he told her.
Wouldn’t that, then, be her choice when given shown reality? Aren’t individualism and the ability to evaluate-data-for-yourself good things?
Would it really be his fault if his SO decided of her own free will to leave instead of accepting the offered hospitality?
