Grape Britain.
This. In the current US, for example, these divisions don’t really matter. Whether someone is of Irish, English, Scottish, or Welsh descent, here they’re just white. Sure, we have divisions along racial lines, but those are due to ongoing issues and not some loyalty to a homeland that people’s great grandparents came from. Take the example of the current immigrants coming to the US from Mexico and Central America. Had that immigration mostly stopped around, say 1900, I think that racism towards Latinos would largely be gone. It happened with other groups who were initially discriminated against (Irish, Italian, Polish, etc.) when immigration from those countries slowed down to a trickle, and the same thing would happen with the hypothetical Grapelanders.
Who is supposed to be the winner and who is the loser in this scenario? Sounds like the receiving country is getting a lot of benefits and the sending country is losing a lot. Esp. when they realize their emigrants don’t go along with the plan and stuff starts to backfire. E.g., they start supporting anti-government people in the Old Country, don’t have a ton of kids, etc.
That’s a good point. The hypothetical states the old country is going to be rewarding the emigrants. After a generation or two this is unlikely to go over well in the home country with the people who stayed. Questions will arise, such as “Why are you sending foreign aid to a bunch of people who don’t even live here, when that money can be used right here at home? Another question might be “Why are we paying taxes to support those other people who get benefits but don’t pay taxes?”
Please clarify what you mean by this. There is either a gap in your knowledge or you hold some profoundly racist views.
What the OP is describing is basically akin to the Muslim emigration to Europe of the past few decades, but on a bigger and more intense scale.
Imagine if, say, 1 billion radical Muslims (let’s say there is an unlimited supply of radical Muslims in the Middle East for the hypothetical purpose) went to Europe, legally so, became voting citizens, and vowed to “Vote Europe into sharia law.” And also had 3 billion Muslim children who would grow up in Europe and also vote as hardline sharia as they could until Europe became unrecognizable as the liberal Western place it once was.
AIUI, that’s similar to what the OP is getting at.
Not true–it could be both.
It’s kind of what I’m aiming for, but rather than a ‘white genocide’ conspiracy theory, it’s an actual stated policy of a country or group …it could be the Pope offering absolution of sins to excessively breeding catholics or white supremacist billionaires subsidising large nordic families.
Effectively, if a large organised group tried to take over political power in a democracy in order to undermine it purely through increasing their own numbers, could & should they be stopped and how?
No, because there’s no way to control the hearts and minds of a new generation being raised in a new culture. While you can certainly bring diversity and new ideas to the host culture, subsequent generations are being assimilated, not the other way around.
Assuming the democracies operate on a basis of welcome and acceptance, it would put them in a contradictory bind: Either abide by their principles, and allow in the horde that will vote their principles into destruction, or violate their principles in order to preserve their principles.
>>it could be the Pope offering absolution of sins to excessively breeding catholics<<
Well, that worked a treat in preventing same-sex marriage in Ireland, didn’t it?
Your basic premise simply doesn’t work. Human reality is more complicated.
I really want to set up a blind date between this thread and thegentrification thread. Because it’s basically the same thing, with a different scale parameter.
Shorn of the window dressing, what we’ve got here is essentially the Central Problem of Democracy - what happens when you get a majority that wants to do shitty things to a minority? And the answer to that is:
a) This is not actually a problem that democracies can deal with. All systems of government have problems, this one is ours.
b) It doesn’t actually matter how the majority gets to be a majority, and there are a lot of other ways of slicing a society other than this race/that race, any one of which can give you this problem.
c) The observed tendancy of any sort of society is to become more likely to oppress minorities when in trouble and turmoil, and less when rich and successful. So if you’re a minority in a democracy, try to make your country rich and successful, and people won’t bother oppressing you so much.
d) There is NO INHERENT CONNECTION between ‘race’ and ‘opinion’. The minority oppression bit happens when the majority has the *opinion *that the minority should be oppressed.
Luckily for us, the last time there was a serious Grapeland in the world with both the degree of racism necessary to think that taking over other people’s countries is a great idea AND the power to do so effectively, was eighteenth century Europe.
There’s really no group around who both can and wants-to colonize like a Victorian Era Brittannia-rules-the-waves imperialist, so I wouldn’t lose sleep over the possibility.
Oh, also … you know every democracy in the world is due to get peacefully invaded in about 50 years by a group of new residents with totally different opinions on society, who don’t really care about our customs and will do things their way without reference to what we believe - right?
They’re called our grandkids.
Ask any 90-year-old.
I had a looong post that got eaten, but here’s the gist:
[ul]
[li]Tax foreign award income 90%[/li]
[li]Spend all of that on social engineering to 2nd gen immigrants[/li]
[li]No private education (including religious schools) allowed. All schools mixed. Make sure kids are in school all day, 6 days a week (but a large part of that is structured play, hobbies, interest clubs, socialisation, not just class lessons) - Grapists are going to have to indoctrinate their kids on Sundays or late at night, I guess.[/li]
[li]Emphasise multiculturalism in all aspects of public life including public media and school curriculum - pop stars and tv/movie stars “happen” to frequently be biracial Grape/Other, schoolbooks always have multicultural examples, we appoint mixed ambassadors to Grapestan, etc. [/li]
[li]Don’t exclude pure Grapes from public life, though - the odd Nobel-winning Grape scientist with their research in Grape-specific genetic diseases, the Grape TV star spinning a gossip-rag tale of how she chose to only have one kid, the pure Grape lead of the mixed-ethnicity [insert Grape-favoured pop music genre here] band seen regularly partying with Berry groupies in their videos…every bit helps[/li]
[li]Heavily penalise parents who have more than two kids, socially/culturally as well as financially (not the kids themselves, who will always have free ed and med even if they’re the 8th kid - just the parents - peer pressure, advertising, general disapproval, labelled as unsustainable, backwards, selfish…emphasise this is not the kid’s fault, treat it as much of a social tragedy as if parents were alcholics or cultists)[/li]
[li]Free, readily available and privacy-protected birth control (including abortion-on-demand) without requiring parental or partner consent. Anti-BC activism is unconstitutional and viewed as hate crime in Free Dibblonia.[/li]
[li]Pervasive, well-funded education (including state media) at all levels from preschool to adult - in [/li][LIST]
[li]world culture (emphasise positives of multiculturalism and backwardness of Grapestan culture), [/li][li]world history (emphasise benefits of Enlightenment and democratic socialism, and the horrors of ethnic conflict and the shortcomings of [monarchy/theocracy/whatever Grapestan has]), [/li][li]science (emphasise non-scientific basis of races, evo benefits of diversity and hybridisation, invasiveness of monocultures and weaknesses and diseases caused by inbreeding), [/li][li]social and sex ed (use Norwegian model -google “Newton pubert sex education” [NSFW] - with added info on interracial relationships (Yay!) and ethnic prejudice (Boo!))[/li][li]etc.[/li][/ul]
[li]Fund any within-Grape-community-originated steps to multiculturalism and outreach, like NGOs or social programs, to the hilt.[/li]
[li]Fund mixed Grape-Other and biracial sports teams that are scientifically designed to absolutely crush Grapestan at its favourite sports.[/li][/LIST]
Basically, I’m not concerned with the immigrants, I want their kids.