This is a simple debate…simple answers will suffice, but feel free to expand if you want.
Pearl Jam are undoubtedly the Rock daddies…but the question is there…who is a better drummer Jack Irons or Matt Cameron.
I know who is better, and hopefully those of you out there with musical knowledge will provide evidence to show i am right in the ongoing arguments with my misinformed and disillusioned friend.
Cheers,
Duggro
I like to think that there is no such thing as a “better” or “best” drummer (or musician for that matter), per se. Each drummer/musician has something to say that no-one else can duplicate, which is why there are so many of them.
Funny, I thought the band sounded best with Dave A behind the set. I’ve only seen the band in person with Matt, and I thought he sounded great. I don’t have the sleeves handy, but wasn’t Jack only on No Code? I didn’t really care for that album.
Why are drummers considered so disposable? It’s like all the other guys are members of the band, and the drummer is a hired hand interchangeable with pretty much any other drummer they can find.
–Pete Best
–Dave Abbruzzese
–Jimmy Chamberlain
What’s the deal? Are they considered less than actual musicians or something?
I don’t think Jimmy Chamberlain is a good example. He was only discharged from the Smashing Pumpkins because of the drug death of touring keyboardist Jonathan Melvoin. And Billy Corgan thinks highly enough of him to have included him in his new band.
Of the 2 drummers listed, I think Cameron is the better drummer, technically. However, the PJ albums that are my favorites (No Code and Yield) came under the Jack Irons era. And I always felt that Dave Abbruzzese was perfectly competent as well.
Here’s my theory:
Short version: Most drummers aren’t good enough, and those who are good enough are in the studios all day, playing behind singers and such and making good, steady money.
Long version: The drumset is a rather involved instrument; one of the few that requires all four limbs to play†. It’s quite a trick to master independence between all four limbs. A guitarist, for example, has more flexibilty in that he needs only two hands and a good knowledge of chords and scales to sound good in many styles, whereas a drummer is looking at quite a bit of practice to play faithful reproductions (that once took a group of people to play) on an instrument that is barely 100 years old. In fact, many drummers, professional and otherwise, haven’t mastered the drumkit to this degree. There are relative few drummers who have achieved such a mastery with the instrument that they can fill any artists/producers desire; thus, there is a constant demand for such. So, most drummers have one or two things they do perfectly rather than be a “jack-of-all-trades/master-of-all-as-well”, such as a good sense of the pocket, specialty in Latin rhythms, good sense of odd meters, tasteful fills/musical playing, ad infinitum.
Also, bands take different directions all the time, and Joe Blough who did the fantastic phrasing and comping in the jazz-tinged direction of one band (call 'em the Caesars) won’t fit on their grunge concept album, so they bring in Dick Dirkler, who’s known for his loud backbeat. The album flops, and the Caesars are going jazzy-unplugged again (dropping Dick), but Joe’s feelings are still hurt and has found another, more appreciative band. This is where another drummer who can ‘play like Joe’ comes in, but has a lousy attitude, so they fire him and the guitarist leaves because his sisterleftcheesecouchdamagedawdffefewfe…
The above situation applies to other instruments, of course, but simply not as much. There’s just that rarity and lack of mastery involved.
Plus, some drummers are genuinely nuts and must be dealt with.
[sub]† The organ and pedal steel guitar (which actually requires both knees as well) are other examples.
I second Second Echo
There’s no reason this should be true of drummers and nobody else, is there? Just asking.
By some, sure. (You must’ve heard all the drummer jokes floating around). Pete Best isn’t a great example either, since The Beatles were still a young band and searching for their sound. And of course, that also makes it sound like Ringo was ‘just some guy’ as opposed to a good and underrated drummer.
Shouldn’t this thread be in Cafe Society?
I don’t know about most other bands, but Pearl Jam has had a Spinal Tap-esque run of bad luck with drummers. Dave Krusen, the drummer on Ten, left the band around the same time the album was released due to personal problems. Depending on whose version of events you hear, Dave Abbruzzese and Pearl Jam either had a mutual parting of the ways or he was tossed out because the others didn’t feel he was fitting in musically or personality-wise. Jack Irons left the band due to medical problems and a desire to spend more time with his wife and son.
I don’t think Pearl Jam, or their management or label, considered these drummers “disposable” (although there were a few other drummers hired for tours that were never considered real members of the band). I’m sure they’d have been happy to stick with Krusen, or Irons, but things just didn’t work out that way. It looks like Matt Cameron (IMHO the most talented of the Pearl Jam drummers) is in for the long haul, though.
I know what you mean, but I don’t know of the reason. That’s where my theory (especially the long version) comes into play.
What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?
Homeless! 
he he he!
For whatever it’s worth, there ARE bands out there that have had a lot of turnover at other instruments. Just to pick an example I obviously know, the Allman Brothers have had a number of guitarists and bass players, but Butch Trucks has always been with them on drums, and Jaimoe (also an original member) has pretty much always been there. So if that’s the rule, there are exceptions.
Let’s not forget the Red Hot Chili Peppers - who went through, what? about 5 or so guitarists (Hillel Slovak, JFrusciante, Arik Martin, Dave Novarro and now Frusciante again, and I may be missing somebody).
Jack Irons, later of Pearl Jam, was of course an early drummer of theirs before Chad Smith.
For that matter, look at Van Halen same guitar, drums and bass but three vocalists…
You could pick any instrument and find examples of a rotating door.
Bottom line? It is not just drummers who rotate through…
I know, guys, but I said that – I made reference to the integration of such behavior in my second post in this thread:
Perhaps Marley’s earlier confirmation of the questioned musicianship of drummers by some people also applies to this phenomenon.
[sub]What does a drummer say on your doorstep? “Domino’s!”
What did the drummer say at his very first professional job? “Would you like fries with that order?”[/sub]
What do you call guys who hang around with musicians?
Drummers. (I know, you saw it coming, but it is one of my favorite jokes and I had to share).