Pedophilia or just plain nuts?

Hypothetical situation:

An adult finds nude pictures of him/her self which were taken while that person was 5-10 years old. The picture is not, in itself, suggestive in any way other than the child is nude. That person proceeds to post said pictures on a website.

Now, let’s toss in some sexually suggestive text just for fun (something like “Look at the package on that guy!”). Ignoring the original photographer, what are the implications legally, morally, etc. Is this child pornography? The child in question now being a consenting adult? Would the person be arrested?

Could a viable first amendment argument be made for these actions? Is it an infringement on said persons rights, since, in this case, the rights others were not compromised?

131 people have looked at this and can’t even comment on the legal aspect of it???

Or is it just not worth answering?

FWIW:
I thought it was a great question. But HellifIknow…

Is this picture child pornography? It’s reference thumbnail page has the caption “Ooh, La La!” (scroll down to 10/7/00). Is this child pornograpy?

Hopefully, in both cases, the answer is no, since these are public sites.

Does something become pornographic because you know someone out there will get off on it, regardless of whether you do? The adult male in the OP presumably doesn’t get off on a picture of himself as a child but he knows that in putting it on the web he is inviting pedophiles to enjoy it. What is his intention in putting it on the web, and is that relevant to whether it is then considered pornography?

Putting a picture in the web for family and friends to share, as AWB did, is not an invitation for some folks to be aroused by it, but they will. Which counts, the intention, or the uninvited effect?

Clearly I don’t know the legal implications, just clarifying my take on it.

IANAL, but I’d advise the OP that people have been arrested for far less suggestive things, e.g. parents taking pictures of their kids in the bathtub. Adding suggestive text only makes it worse, especially when there’s not a lot of wiggle room for sarcasm.

As for AWB…cute pic, I don’t have a problem with it and I’m sure 99.9% of the people out there don’t either. It’s the 0.01% you have to watch out for – morally self-righteous, vigilante idiots who think that ANY form of nudity is sexually explicit. Beyond that, I’ll leave it up to the legal professionals to decide whether having that picture up is a good idea or not.

J.E.T.

Okay, I’ll take a stab at it, though I’m no lawyer. Horse sense and actual laws about morality are two very different animals anyway, so whatever conclusion I come to on a purely philosophical level has nothing to do with one’s actual chances of getting arrested.

Child porn laws basically exist to prevent abuse to actual kids (whether that kid realizes he/she is being abused or not). To me, suggestive photographs of naked children are not a crime per se: they’re EVIDENCE that a crime was committed in real life, at the moment the pictures were taken.

Now let’s look at the first ingredient in your hypothesis: a web site where adults could post naked non-suggestive pictures of themselves when they were kids. Personally, I don’t see where the crime is. Of course, that site might be a boon to pedophiles, but then again, a lot of non-prurient pictures (Sears catalog, medical textbooks, National Geographics, you know the list) are used every day by people who choose to view them as sexually charged, and that doesn’t make those pictures X-rated in the first place.

Second ingredient now: adding suggestive captions to said pictures. That’s kind of pushing it, of course, and would definitely qualify as bad taste or a sign of warped mind to most people, but those aren’t crimes (if it were, I guess a lot of people posting stuff on this message board would have to be put behind bars, pronto – myself included). Once again, where is there actual harm here? I certainly don’t see a real-life victim, that’s for sure.

(Of course, if this inspires a pedophile to go out and rape a kid, the crime would be in the actual rape. But I never bought the argument which says that “the pictures made me do it” and neither did the Court. The movie “Natural Born Killers” did get cleared of having inspired a real-life murder spree, and I guess the same logic would apply here. The moment we accept that a murderer is not responsible for his/her actions, but that the source of inspiration is, all the detective novel writers in the world become guilty of murder. But I digress…)

If matching a picture with a suggestive caption WERE a crime, we’d have a big problem trying to determine at what point a legitimate picture/caption combination BECOMES a crime. Say the kids were in ordinary swimsuits instead of being naked. Would adding a suggestive caption turn these into child porn as well? Say the kids were 16? Say they were 18 but looked 16?

Adding suggestive captions to non-erotic pictures is nothing new anyway: a lot of humor magazines have done that with old movie stills, and that didn’t turn them into X-rated skin mags.

So, to answer your question: no arrest from me. Then again, a lot of people DO get arrested for things that I didn’t even think were crimes, so what do I know? You might have heard about the Canadian 17-year-old who actually got thrown in jail for 36 days when he wrote and read a short story in class about a student who prepares to blow up his school (the story ends before he does). And we know of plenty of cases where parents who had taken non-suggestive pictures of their kid in the bathtub were seriously investigated by the police when they had their film developed at the Photomart. Accordingly, when it comes to “morality” arrests, no one can ever be sure.

Who knows, maybe someone somewhere is frantically investigating who we both are just for having discussed this, and trying to come up with a charge that will stick…

I can’t link to the article because http://www.newsweek.com charges for subscriptions to their archives, but they ran a story last month about child pornography and how the internet has impacted the tracking and prosecution of the pornographers.

Toward the end of the article, there was a mention of the problem of virtual images of children - computer generated pictures of children that, if they were real pictures, would be considered pornography. The legal community and the powers that be are debating on whether or not these will be illegal. On one hand, no real children were involved so there are no real victims. On the other hand, if a link can be established between people looking at these kinds of pictures and them committing real acts of pedophilia, etc., then maybe they should be illegal. The point was raised, though, that you can’t make something illegal because it might incite an illegal act.

Law enforcement spokesmen also said that if virtual pictures started to become popular, their job would be almost impossible - how would they differentiate between pictures of real children and computer generated pictures?

I think the problem of virtual pictures relates to your question. If there are no real victims of the kind of pictures you’re talking about, you can’t really prosecute people. On the other hand, I can’t see many people being sympathetic when they come to your house and arrest you and you have to put up a huge legal fight to exonerate yourself.

What determines what is allowed is intent.

If you have a picture of a child nude at the beach playing around & you put it on your refrigerator, that’s acceptable.

Putting the same picture in a Lolita magazine or on a web site for pedophiles is not acceptable.

As to whether you’d get arrested for posting a picture of yourself, I bet you would, after all, they could claim it wasn’t you in the picture; but why not call the police in the country you are in, since the OP doesn’t say which one it is.

That’s a good point, but what about arrests of people who “traffic” in child pornography but don’t take the pictures themselves? Perhaps they create the market for the pictures, but so do the pedophiles ultimately, and they are said not to be hurting anyone by looking?

What about AWB’s example, in between these two? His intent was for friends to see his baby, not on a pedophile site but still accessible by the public?

Make no mistake, simple POSSESSION of kiddy porn is a serious crime, whether you get off on it or not. Half a dozen images could get you thrown in jail for years, and you get to spend the rest of your life as a registered sex offender. NOT GOOD.

The subject doesn’t even need to be nude to qualify as kiddie porn. One guy got busted for taking close-up shots of children’s clothed genital areas, he got 4 years. More recently, two men were arrested at a waterpark near here, for secretly videotaping close-ups of children’s wet bathing suits as they came off the slides. I don’t know the outcome of that case.

J.E.T.

I hate hypothetical situations.

I hate :bumps.:

And I hate that no one is posting actual facts related to the (small) portion of the OP that was actually a General Question, just a buncha WAGS and anecdotes.

This thread is closed.