Pelosi and Schumer say they'll pass legislation to end the shutdown. How?

Sounds like you understand the marginal benefit of building additional walls is pretty low?

They could come up with a funding bill that does not fund the wall, and is reasonable enough that Trump would look even more selfish if he vetoed it. E.g. it could allocate additional funds for border security, but not the wall.

If so, that means over 50% DON’T.

Over half your countrymen don’t “support border security,” as you put it. They may be anywhere from indifferent to the issue to hostile to the wall.

In a republic, do we generally take on public works projects that a majority of the populace, on reflection, aver that they don’t want? Do we declare eminent domain on huge chunks of border cities for something that isn’t even popular nationwide, let alone in those cities? In a republic, with property rights? Is that what we do?

The wall is a monstrous idea. Give it up, please.

Ah yes, the GoFundMe started by this guy:

Hey aceplace57

I’m not relenting until you address the fact that Trump EMPHATICALLY PROMISED that Mexico was going to pay for this. Is Trump just a garbage-bag negotiator or a liar? Why aren’t you holding him accountable to that promise?

I do not think there needs to be any discussion about a border wall until Red-Hatters logically and conclusively discuss Trump’s promise that Mexico would pay for it.

I suspect you know you have zero intellectual ground and will continue to ignore me.

I respect the fuck out of Kolfage’s sacrifice serving in the Air Force. I’m grateful to him, grateful for him, and love him with all my heart…

And he’s also a reactionary asshole idiot.
His GFM idea is populist af, and fairly clever, and I support the passion behind it…

And is hasn’t a whelk’s chance of ever getting funded. It’s a publicity stunt, that’s all, and anyone with an ounce of sense recognizes it for what it is.

As for the OP, I agree with above posts and consider it likely that Pelosi will put the Senate text, or very near to it, to a vote in the first week of the new Congress. I think it’s also likely that it will pass resoundingly, with bipartisan support, and then get dropped on the Resolute with a post-it attached reading “Dare you to veto.”

I never expected Mexico to fund the wall. That was stupid campaign rhetoric championed by Trump.

I support building parts of a wall and substituting sensors & cameras where possible. We need border security, but in a way that’s practical.

Trump is asking way too much. He would need 30 billion to actually build what he wants. I hope a reasonable compromise can be negotiated and the gov. gets funded.

Polling support for a wall:

Overall only 30% think it should be an immediate priority, 27% of Independents. It’s not even a majority who feel that among “soft Republicans” (includes leaners); only “strong Republicans” hit that majority. His base of “white not college graduate” is less than a majority thinking immediate priority and almost as many feel it should not be a priority at all.

Honestly I think near 100% of Americans are for border security. It’s just that fewer of us are for stupidity.

Well said.

The OP’s error is in framing this situation as though the two parties were negotiating from similar standpoints–as though they were simply two equivalent but opposing ideas about how to keep the government operational. But this is not the case. (By the way, it’s just 25% of the government in question, here–not the whole thing.)

Schumer and Pelosi are just proposing a continuing resolution through February which both branches of congress can agree to. It’s just a basic agreement to keep things operational, and doesn’t involve any big concessions on either side. In short, they’re legislating. They doing their job.

Trump, on the other hand, is solely engaging in a publicity stunt, with no clue or concern about how government works. He’s pandering to the audiences of Coulter and Limbaugh. He likes the sound of the phrase “government shutdown,” because he thinks it makes him seem tough. The wall itself doesn’t really matter for him–he himself has admitted that it’s all just for his image. And he’s perfectly willing to let the people of the country pay this huge price for his image–to pay for a wall that won’t even solve these problems, which he grossly exaggerates anyway. It’s a $30 billion fantasy.

Everyone in Congress knows this, too.


Then why can’t Pelosi say:

“I never expected Trump would actually try to build the wall. That was stupid campaign rhetoric championed by Trump. So, we don’t need to vote for funding for a wall.”

Or is there a Super-Secret Decoding Ring that allows you to say the “Mexico pays” part was campaign rhetoric, but “Build the wall” was a locked-down commitment?

“border security” does not equal “trumps wall”.

Building a wall along the country’s southern border has been a mainstay of Trump’s campaign promises, however, a majority of Americans (57%) think Trump should compromise to avoid gridlock, poll findings revealed. Only 21% agree with Trump’s current tactic of not compromising in favor of building the wall.

In other words, almost exactly what we’re already doing.

Well, you see, what Trump meant by that is that New Mexico will pay for the wall. :slight_smile:

Give me $50,000 so I can put bars on your windows, even if you don’t particularly want them.

Wait, why are you refusing to negotiate? The amount is negotiable. You could spend half that. Saying NO bars on your window is childish.

Congress is fully supportive of border security.
They refuse to spend a cent on a useless full-length border Wall.
Trump must learn to compromise.

Do you see the problem here?

I implied that Trump was capable of learning?

I wonder how long the government will have to be shut down for most people to notice.

I for one have never been affected by any government shut down and I’m willing to bet that most people weren’t either

Most of us who are upper middle class aren’t significantly affected by government actions in general. And with this one only affecting parts of the government while leaving other parts untouched, it’ll affect fewer people than usual.

(True story: my wife and I work for the same government agency, but my work is funded and hers isn’t. On Wednesday, she will be on furlough, but I won’t.)

But while Social Security and Medicare checks will continue to arrive during the shutdown, apparently food stamps won’t. Be glad that you don’t need that sort of assistance.

In buildings that are closed due to the shutdown, a lot of support people - cleaning crew, security guards, cafeteria workers, etc. - are hired through contractors; they aren’t government employees. While the shutdown continues, they will not get paid.

I’m sure there are plenty of others directly affected, but those are the examples I remember off the top of my head.

I think Food Stamps are funded:

WIC, however, might be affected, according to that article.