Pelting le Pen: helpful or not?

Yesterday, the car of French rightist Jean-Marie le Pen was pelted with eggs and rubbish as he left the scene of a rally in support of the British National Party in Manchester, UK.

For those who don’t know, le Pen is the long-time head of the anti-immigration, anti-Jewish Front Nationale, whose platform, among other things, has long advocated the expulsion of all immigrants (legal or otherwise) from France. Le Pen was the man who famously said that he considered the gas chambers of German concentration camps during World War II “a detail of history”, remarks for which he twice has been sued, and eventually fined, for violating laws against hate speech in France.

While the Front in recent years has gained as much as 16 % of the popular vote in national elections, the BNP has scored considerably less, and le Pen’s trip has been reported as intended to shore up support for the BNP in upcoming European elections. It also occurs at a time when there is increasing discussion in the UK of potential threats by home-grown militant Islamicists, including a number of recent arrests for possible terrorist activities. While only a tiny minority of recent immigrants may be involved, the issue has at least the potential of spilling ove into a broader anti-immigrant campaign.

Speaking as a one-time resident of France, I always found le Pen and his followers throughly odious, and, were I given the opportunity, might have been tempted to egg his car as well. The question for debate, however, is whether such an action would really serve its intended purpose. That is, isn’t possible that this sort of thing, which borders on rioting, might actually gain sympathy for le Pen and his, er, ilk? Should we just go ahead and express our rejection of his policies with any old means, short, presumably, of personal violence? Should we ignore him? Or what?

Well, I can’t say I’m an expert on French politics (snort to say the least) and I admit to only knowning the bare minimum about le Pen (I thought he was some kind of neo-nazi). However, throwing things at his car and or assaulting him probably isn’t the best tactic. Better would be to publicly and calmly discredit his ridiculous positions and to encourage people against such drivel to get out and vote.

BTW, what exactly does it mean in France that the Front has 16% of the vote? Does that mean that this is the percentage of elected officials to their equivenant of the Senate/Congress? Does this give them any real power at all? And how could they get even that high of a percentage of the vote in France…France for gods sake! They are (afaik anyway) practically a neo-nazi party…aren’t they??

Ok, I’m showing my American ignorance. I know a lot more about British politics…but next to nothing about French.

-XT

Depends on how smarts the leaders of the BNP are. Le Pen definitely is. And he capitalized a lot on his “victim” status. Victim of the egg-launchers, victim of the biased medias, victim of the partial courts (recently he ran for an elected position, but the court stated he couldn’t for technical legal reasons, and it didn’t miss this new occasion to tell once again that he was victimized. And I strongly suspect he actualy made sure to be in such a position that the court would rule that way), etc…It’s one of the way he tries to attract the support of distraught electors who don’t have much confidence in the institutions.

Besides, he uses provocation as a political tool. When he makes controversial statements like the “detail” you’re refering to, he attracts the attention of the medias for some time. I don’t believe for an instant that he doesn’t do that purposefully.

So, I would suspect it would be better to ignore him (or the BNP, for that matter), as long as it is reasonnably possible, since by attacking him you’re actually doing what he’s expecting you to do. I’m pretty certain he was quite happy with the egg rain. Some more footage for the medias. Some more evidences that leftists are tughs.
Anyway, given the electoral system in the UK, there isn’t much risk that the BNP will attract many voters.

It was certainly helpful for Le Pen, who can now (with some justification) say, “Look at my opposition; A bunch of crap throwing idiots. You really want to be on their side?”

Also, it is a bit amusing that so-called liberals, ostensibly all about free-speech and anti-war whatnot, will pelt some guy with stuff. Sure, it isn’t pulling a Pim Fortyn (yet), but for folk that claim to be peaceful and all about the diversity, it is certainly ironic.

Seeing as how there is photographic record of Le Pen physically assaulting a fellow member of the French Parliament (I’m googling as I write this for a copy), I don’t think criticism of the tactics of those who oppose him is at all well-founded. I’m certainly not asserting that physical violence is the only way of dealing with racist scum like Le Pen, but that confrontation with him and his supporters, even if it’s just a large group of protestors chanting loudly and angrily to shout him down, is necessary to send him a clear message that his politics are unwelcome and undesirable.

Le Pen isn’t going to graciously accept defeat in a courteous and well-thought-out debate. Those who oppose him shouldn’t limit themselves to that arena either.

No, he’s not a neo-nazi. He’s more of a populist conservative surfing on a strongly nationalist and anti-immigration platform. He supports family values, anti-“establishment”, is strongly anti-european, anti-american, anti-arab, or more generaly anti everything which is not french. He certainly capitalize on antisemitism too, but as I stated before, his antisemitic comments are more likely to be intended to draw the medias attention.

Roughly, if France ousted all the immigrants (especially the ara, forgot about the EU, came back to traditionnal family values (women raising children, etc…), all the problems would be solved overnight.

BTW, what exactly does it mean in France that the Front has 16% of the vote? Does that mean that this is the percentage of elected officials to their equivenant of the Senate/Congress? Does this give them any real power at all? And how could they get even that high of a percentage of the vote in France…France for gods sake! They are (afaik anyway) practically a neo-nazi party…aren’t they??

Ok, I’m showing my American ignorance. I know a lot more about British politics…but next to nothing about French.

-XT
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Throwing eggs at Le Pen sounds like a great deal of fun; tragically, it is also a bad idea. You don’t want to pull a George Bush: you don’t want to attack your enemies in a way that increases their recruiting powers, and that’s just what throwing eggs at Le Pen is gonna do.

Daniel

And “No violence against persons or property” is one of the cardinal rules of free peaceful protest. I can certainly sympathize with wanting to egg LePen’s car, but I can’t condone actually doing so.

A compromise: why not bring your own big poster of LePen to the rally and use it as the target in an egg- and garbage-throwing contest? As per the old political tradition of hanging your opponent in effigy. All the cathartic pelting you want, without committing violence against persons or property. Clean up the broken eggs and garbage when you’re done, please.

How, exactly, will that add to Le Pen’s recruiting power? Am I just too naive to think that potential recruits would actually be driven away by the potential for the same treatment?

Here’s my understanding of the subject. Le Pen stages a rally and the liberals and the left ignore him, or stage some action that essentially does the same thing - like a counter rally on the other side of town. He draws in recruits, who go out and commit various atrocities, like defiling a mosque or even a synagogue. The liberals and the left continue their tactics of demonstrating elsewhere. “Cool,” the new Le Pen followers think, “we can keep pulling this kind of stuff and the Red bastards will ignore us!”

On the other hand, say Le Pen’s rally is met by a larger, louder, more militant counterdemonstration at the same place. He is constantly heckled, booed, and shouted down when he attempts to speak. Recruits that show up are naturally confused and demoralized. “We gotta go through this every time Le Pen wants us to rally? No way.” Same thing for the diehard fanatics that try to actually do something atrocious - they’re met with loud and militant solidarity whenever and wherever they act. Are they really going to continue their hooliganism if all they can expect is more public anger and condemnation?

And I’m not speaking from pure abstraction, either. Hundreds of people confronted the Ku Klux Klan back in 1996 when they twice tried staging a rally in Annapolis, MD. They haven’t been heard from since. And in 1999, the World Church of the Creator, another white supremacist organization, planned a march and rally in Lafayette Park, right across the street from the White House. Thousands turned out to counterdemonstrate and shadow their march, which collapsed completely when only four members showed up at the stepoff point in Northern Virginia. They haven’t been back.

This, incidentally, is one of my favorite images from that 1999 counterdemonstration, and not just 'cos I made the sign.)

Upon preview, I see Kimstu makes an excellent argument. Just as long as Le Pen can see or hear it being done! :smiley:

Totally agree with this bit… but:-

Who is “so-calling” the crap throwing idiots “Liberals”? (In either the US or UK sense), they looked like old-school “rent-a-mob” Hard-Lefties to me (in the coverage I’ve seen anyway). What gave away to you that this was a marauding band of vicious Liberals? - were they all bearded and dressed in knitwear and corduroy jackets with elbow patches?

Far be it from me to suggest you’re naive :wink: but I think that lots of folks on the edges of politics love a good fight. You let Le Pen point out what a brave little intellectual iconoclast he is, bombarded by liberals too afraid to let the truth be heard, and bored young disenchanted schmucks will hear the message and decide that hey, here’s a cause they could get involved in.

Stand against him, sure. But shout him down at your peril.

My all-time favorite counterprotest idea is the Lemonade Counterprotest (i.e., what you do when life hands you lemons). Get people to sponsor the Le Pen (or whoever) rally, for a nickel a minute or whatever. All funds raised go to an antiracist organization like the NAACP, so the longer the rally goes, the more Le Pen raises for his opposition.

Daniel

No, he’s not a neo-nazi. He’s more of a populist conservative surfing on a strongly nationalist and anti-immigration platform. He supports family values, is anti-“establishment”, strongly anti-european, anti-american, anti-arab, or more generaly anti everything which is not french. He certainly capitalizes on antisemitism too, but as I stated before, his antisemitic comments are more likely to be intended to attract the medias attention, IMO. Of course he denies being racist or antisemitic, and has a couple Arabs, blacks and Jews in his party to show around.

Roughly, if France ousted all the immigrants (especially the arabs, which are about to impose islam and various other horrors on us), forgot about the EU, came back to traditionnal family values (women raising children, etc…), implemented protectionnist policies, reetablished the death penalty and reduced the taxes all the problems would be solved overnight.

He used to be a fringe politician, but for about twenty years now, his party consistently got between 10 and 18% of the votes, with highs and downs.

As for what it means practically, it depends on the elections. His party doesn’t have seats in the current french parliament (he had a couple in the preceding one) since PMs are elected in the equivalent of counties following a majority system (he doesn’t have any seat in the equivalent of the senate, either, but I’m not going to give more details). On the other hand, it has some seats in the European parliament, since a proportionnal system is used.

His party managed in the past to win the elections in some towns, and uniformly, it turned to a total and massive failure. He also won some seats in other local elections. In these case, he didn’t realy achieve a real political control, but used its influence to make some political deals (always denied by the other politicians, always widely publicized by him, and sometimes quite blatant).

The most striking event occured during the last presidential elections. Against all expectations, he got more votes (17 %) than the socialist candidate (the left vote had been dispersed amongst many candidates) hence qualified for the run-off against Chirac. Essentialy everybody was bewieldered by this unexpected situation, there was a lot of protests (and a large part of the protestors were people who had not bothered to vote…is anybody surprised?). The result being that Chirac got reelected with a tinpot dictatorship score of 82%. (Yes, it hurts to have to vote for Chirac. For the american democrats on this board, just imagine that you have to vote for Bush during the next election)
As for power, he doesn’t realy have direct power, but definitely a nuisance power, in the sense that it results in the right taking a much stronger stance, in particular concerning issue like security, immigration, etc… In the recent past, many controversial laws have been passed as a reaction to Le Pen’s high scores, in order to regain the favor of his electors (laws against vagrancy, against the islamic veil in schools, harsher sentences for juvenile delinquents, etc…). The current minister of the economy, formerly minister of the interior , and very ambitious Nicolas Sarkozy in particular became a specialist in this domain. There was no day when he wasn’t busy making sure that the french people were protected from all imaginable kind of threats, be it terrorism, car theft, prostitution, illegal immigrants, agressive panhandlers, violence in schools, islamic veils, etc…
I must add to be fair that he was used by the left, in particular the former socialist president Mitterand as a weapon against the right, since it was a major pain in the ass for them (the right) during some elections. This cetainly helped him to some extent, but I’m not sure it contributed that much to his successes.

His electorate is quite peculiar. First, the profile of the activists in his party is very different from the profile of his electors. The active members generally belong to one of the folowing categories :

-Real extreme-right activists, ranging from extreme-right intelectuals to neo-nazi skinheads (the Front National try hard to hide the latter, but it’s difficult not to notice them, in , say, a rally)

-Conservative catholic right (family values, anti-abortion, etc…) generally coming from a well-off background

-Little entrepreneurs, shop-owners, etc…who are mainly attracted by his “less taxes” stances. He originally (during the 60’s) was an influent member of a party which recruted mainly in this category.

His electorate, for the most part is very different : it’s a very popular electorate, like people who have a hard time making ends meet, live in poor subburbs, are unemployed or are at risk to become so, etc…As paradoxal as it might seem, a significant part of his electors formerly voted for the communist party, which had too a very populist stance (we understand the problems of the little people, contrarily to the establishment , and we’re going to fix them by ousting the arabs/ the capitalists).

Another category where the Front National recruits some support are conservative, rather well off and rather aged people, in particular in south-eastern france (his scores are quite high in hte french riviera, for instance).

If you add these with the hard-liners I mentionned above, some anti-establishment people, some protests votes, various racist and antisemitic profiles, you get the 17%.

I would add that I personnally attended one of Le Pen rallies, and he’s a really excellent orator (which surprised me, since it isn’t obvious when you watch him on TV, for instance).
Finally, it seems that his party success rest mainly on his shoulders and on his personnal political skills. And he’s quite old. Though he’s in the process of passing the reins to one of his daughters, many expect the Front National to collapse after his death or retirment. I’m not fully convinced, personnally, though. The ideas he promotes had the time to grow some solid roots, and won’t just dissapear in a puff of smoke, IMO (but the suport for his party wil most certainly drop significantly).

Actually, it wasn’t a member of the parliament (though perhaps she was alsoa MP) since last time Le Pen was in the parliament was during the Algeria war, but his adversary during a local election, IIRC.

By the way, concerning the Algeria war, Le Pen has been accused of having tortured Algerians members of the FLN (National Liberation Front of Algeria) during this war (he was a junior officer). There has been testimonies, but it’s unproven and will stay so, since the Algeria war events have been covered by a general amnesty.

You’re probably right. It’s been years since I saw that picture, and I’d need to go dig up the original source again. But he’s got her by the throat and is screaming in her face. Rather horrid, actually.

If the Klan and the white supremacists had come back and staged successful rallies after we’d shouted them down as I’ve talked about, I’d be willing to concede you have a point. But they’ve left DC and Annapolis alone. What’s so different about Le Pen and his far right politics that the same sort of confrontation will only cause him to grow?

Throwing eggs at French politicians is the only recourse these days for protestors since the British politicians may retaliate.

Thanks for your contributions, clairobscur. I had a feeling you’d show up with some highly useful info. I’ll just add to your excellent description of le Pen’s consitituency that there seems to be strong streak of nostalgia in some FN supporters for a sort of France that no longer exists and probably never did; the way some Americans yearn for the supposedly simpler (but far more racist) times of the '50s. As someone else has said, the FN is not really a neo-Nazi organization, but they have appropriated some of the sort of ‘branding’ and bombastically patriotic imagery (for lack of a better term) that the Nazis were very good at. There’s even a sort of hitler youth-style organization for FN kiddies. And, as claire said, le Pen is an pretty good orator, in the know-nothing/populist vein.

My chosen form of protest consisted of photographing FN posters defaced during election campaigns. This is a popular form of protest in France (the defacing, that is) where campaign posters almost always show the faces of the persons running for office. That fact alone seems to really inspire people to damage them.

Well, it would have been more effective if I had actually ever managed to have an exhibition, that is; the one night some of my stuff was shown in Paris (at the Glassbox cooperative, a one-day show called ‘Insomnia’) there was some interest, but nothing ever came of it. I eventually thought of having some of them run off as photocopies and plastering them over legitimate FN posters, but I’d already moved back to the States by that time.

here’s a brief page in english about Le Pen which quotes several of his antisemitic statements.
Also, here are mentionned some of the crimes supporters of Le Pen have been involved too. Though this is a communist (trotskist) site, very heavy on propaganda (I picked it because it was in english and had references to the kind of events I was searching for), it still refers to very real events. Reading the whole thing would be quite boring, I suspect, but you can look at the pictures and the accompanying text. The guy drowned in the Seine during a FN protest, the desacrated cemetary, etc… are very real events.
Of course, all the people voting for Le Pen don’t belong to this brand of extremism, but this brand of extremist does belong to Le Pen’s crowd. And though he distances himself from these people in words , he don’t take any significant measure to eliminate them from his party in fact.
Besides, though racism might not always be the main motivation of his electors, as I already mentionned, the wide majority of them are racists at least to some extent.

I couldn’t find any large picture of his already mentionned public assault against this woman, by the way.

Your experiences are not similar to ones I’ve read about in the Southern Poverty Law Center: generally the Klan and similar organizations thrive on confrontation.

Daniel

I’m not certain that such things cause him to grow. What I’m essentially certain of is that he thinks so. And it might be right, because there’s a majot difference with the Klan. He is already popular and has a lot of supporters. These at least will feel sympathy and will be reinforced in their belief that he’s a victim of thugs and the establishment, who want to shut him because he advocates ideas which would be prejudicial for them. There’s some sort of paranoïa going on amongst Le Pen’s suporters, to some extent (politicains are all crooks who fill their pockets with money, France will become a muslim nation within a generation, the court’s are at the potician’s orders, the Jews own the medias, etc…). Attacking him (or them, for that matter, when they attend a rally) will be an evidence they’re right.
In any case, though perhaps it doesn’t actually result in him gaining more support, at least, once again, it’s doing what he expect his opponents to do. If only in order to get some media coverage.