I think “multiple outs” can also just mean that there are multiple ways in which he could show that he apparently had foreknowledge of Alyson’s selection—one way for each possible choice. Of course, stating at the outset of the trick that the answer is in the box kind of limits the number of implementations.
“Multiple outs” just means you have X number of possible endings for the trick, where the one you use is dependent on something the spectator chooses. It makes it look like you made a prediction, but in fact you made every prediction, and simply reveal the right one.
In the animals trick, you’ll notice he pulls out an envelope with the prediction which is inside another envelope in the box. I assume the outer envelope actually has several hidden compartments which contain predictions for each animal. Some may be on slips contained in the outer envelope, and some in separate inner envelopes. It doesn’t matter, since the audience only ever sees one of them. The trick is simply knowing how to access the right prediction.
Whenever you’re trying to figure out an effect, a good exercise is always to ask why information is presented in a certain way. Why have an envelope inside another envelope? There’s no purpose to it, unless it has something to do with segregating multiple predictions inside the large envelope so the right one can be chosen by feel.
(On a P&T TV special from years ago, they actually do a great demo of multiple outs. Penn has spectators on a beach choose a card at random (no force) and Teller, standing far away, then reveals the same card from his pocket. Amazing! But then they do the trick again and again with new spectators, and it turns out Teller actually has 52 separate hiding places for his predictions! That’s multiple outs done big.)
Edit: Found it. The internet is ridiculous.
Thing is, Penn pairs that bit — about ‘ins and outs’ and ‘both sides’ — with the bit about how he would’ve still been fine with a ‘turkey’ answer. Did that mean he pulled out Answer A for ‘duck’, but could’ve pulled out B for ‘turkey’?
If that’s what Penn meant, then you shouldn’t be stumped about ‘duck’.
And, as was said, he doesn’t pull the answer out of the box — the way Alyson could’ve, and spectacularly would’ve, if a mentalist incepted her into thinking ‘duck’. Instead, he pulls out a big envelope, and opens it up. And then he pulls a smaller envelope out of that bigger envelope, and opens up the smaller envelope while discarding the bigger envelope. And then she pulls the answer out. Why?
Did the big envelope house slim envelopes, so that pulling one out from one side produces a different answer than pulling another one out from another side?
Oh, so you were saying all along that the trick is done when reaching into the envelope? That makes a heck of a lot more sense than what I got from your previous post, where you seemed to be saying that trick was done when reaching into the box.
So, no discussion of the Murray Sawchuck trick so far? This one seemed incredibly obvious to me—so much so that I think I got it on the first viewing.
The giant bulb is not a lightbulb, but simply contains a small waterproof lightbulb near the neck, with the remaining volume filled with milk. The milk in the giant bulb obscures the actual lightbulb.
The pitcher is actually three concentric plastic cylinders. All three cylinders are attached to a round plastic plate at the bottom. At the top, the outermost and innermost cylinders are connected at the top by a plastic ring. This creates three inner voids: one between the outermost and middle cylinders, one between the middle and innermost cylinders, and one inside the innermost cylinder. The first two voids are connected by virtue of the fact that the middle cylinder does not reach all the way to the top lid.
At the beginning of the trick, there is a small amount of milk in the innermost void, and a large amount of milk in the outermost void which makes it seem as though it fills the entire pitcher. When the magician removes the pitcher from the box, he sloshes it so that some of the liquid in the innermost void spills onto the floor; this reinforces the illusion that the milk seen by the audience is open to the air rather than trapped inside the pitcher’s walls.
The magician then tilts the pitcher to mime pouring it into the paper cone. The paper cone obscures the top of the pitcher and therefore the fact that the milk is flowing from the outer void into the middle void. The magician tilts the pitcher even further, allowing the rest of the milk in the innermost void to spill through the paper cone and onto the floor. He then returns the pitcher to an upright position; the milk level is now reduced to about half, because half of the milk is in each of the two outer voids. The paper cone contains no milk, since the small amount of milk that was poured into it drained out the end. To the audience’s surprise, the paper is shown to be empty. (It is not even wet because it is actually wax paper.)
The magician then takes the large bulb, being careful to wrap his hand around the neck to conceal the lightbulb. He removes the stopper and pours the milk from the bulb into the innermost void of the pitcher.
I was a bit surprised and disappointed that they let Sawchuck perform this trick, which everyone on the show agreed was a familiar classic. There have been a lot of “classic” tricks on the show but the performer is usually quick to point out that they’ve added an original twist to confuse Penn & Teller. I understand that the producers may be having trouble finding truly novel acts to run, but in this case they really very explicitly threw the premise of the show out the window.
If I’d had to bet, I’d have figured then — and still would — that it was a matter of reaching into the envelope; but I can’t rule out that it was a matter of reaching into the box (especially since this show is kind of meta, and pulling a small envelope out of the side of a big envelope you flip around is probably smart if the goal is having Penn and Teller zero in on that when it’s really a gimmicked box).
So I worded it ambiguously, since what I primarily wanted to convey is what I was surest of: that Mean Mr. Mustard absolutely shouldn’t start his reasoning with that “Obviously, the duck - and only the duck - was in the box the entire time.”
There have been plenty of cases of acts that were clearly never intended to fool them.
One of my favorite performances, over the history of the show, was Kayla Drescher and I’m sure that she had zero expectation that she was going to fool them with her act, nor would any of the producers have believed so either.
The prize be what it may, the purpose of the show is not to find the best magician in the world, from the standpoint of a magical technique. It’s just an entertainment show. The prize is just an excuse to get some nice acts up on the stage. If the person thinks they can trick Penn & Teller, then that’s nice for the magician’s ego, but there’s not really anything more to it.
I assume that the real trophy, for a magician who wants to prove what he can do technically, is something that the Magic Castle or some magic organization gives out.
Someone who makes such bold statements as these should surely be able to articulate how the trick is performed. None of the explanations offered in this thread so far stand up to the scrutiny of careful, repeated viewings of the trick.
(not that I think it’s something other than the performer having ‘outs’; I just don’t know, specifically, how he gets it done)
mmm
Well, I was giving myself an out. 
Jokes aside, the thought process I was alluding to went like this: the guy said, before doing the trick, that he’d hint Alyson into ruling out all of the other animals and she’d select the animal of his choice; and Penn’s ‘turkey’ remark, after the trick, was clearly one Penn thought was important enough to make.
And I thought, during the trick, of exactly such a remark: I thought it right when the guy handled stuff that Alyson clearly should’ve been handling. And I figured, in the same vein, that folks watching at home would’ve hit upon that same remark (a) before Penn actually said it, and (b) after seeing Alyson get waved away from the ‘handler’ duties. Because, c’mon: how could they not? That’s the moment when it becomes clear that the entire act up to that point has been irrelevant showmanship: an attempt at creating a diversion from the effect he’s only now going to produce.
Now, I could readily whip up an envelope that could produce that effect; I can’t readily whip up a box that could produce that effect, but I can’t rule out the possibility. Which is, again, a wrinkle for this show: if there are multiple ways to work a trick, it’s no good to boldly assert one when another could also be the solution.
But if you want me to articulate one explanation? Get yourself a big deep envelope. Cut it open at the sides. Glue it back together after placing a pocket envelope, the same color, in each side. Insert another pocket envelope in the top side, too. Oh, and load each one with a different slim little item containing the name of animal; memorize, and then practice like crazy.
Could you — yes, you — get to where you could do that for three options, flipping the big envelope around and pulling stuff out of Side A if somebody names one animal, or flipping it around differently to pull stuff out of Side B if somebody names a different animal? Or going in through the top, like a regular person with a regular envelope, if somebody instead calls out the name of Animal C?
If so, then I’ll go on to mention how you could broaden the act to D-E-F. If not, then let’s stop here and discuss why you think scrutiny already beats it…
This was my thought, though not even that complicated - just that there were eight different envelopes he could’ve pulled out. I’m not sure that Alyson got a good enough look to need false bottoms and so forth.
I was really disappointed when the trick ended up being an envelope pull… I was really hoping there’d be a stuffed animal inside or something. I hate mentalism tricks and I wish (especially since P&T say the same) they would have less of them on the show.
Same here. At least try and put some twist on it to acknowledge the premise of the show. Stuff like this and the car-crushing-robot bit make me wonder if the show is on it’s last legs, at least in terms of quality of the acts that actually exist as an attempt to fool P&T.
I’m catching up on Fool Us, still a couple of seasons behind, but I was thinking about the nature of instant stooges in magic. I made a thread about it if anyone wants to discuss.
Thanks for the detailed response, Waldo. I watched the trick again and noted how unnecessarily guarded the performer was in removing the smaller envelope from the large.
mmm
Episode 9
Will Bradshaw, animal traps. Penn’s codeword was equivocation -wasn’ta free choice, no matter what Alyson said his hand was only going onto the trap he knew was safe. Forcing (magic) - Wikipedia****
Eric Dittelman, mentalist charades. Mene teckle is a set deck.
Christian Engblom, signed card out of vanishing back pocket& breast pocket. I really liked this one. You never see a back pocket in the first place and when he was “reaching into the back pocket” for the first card he is sliding Stacey’s card into the breast pocket. When he turns around to reveal he has no back pockets he is removing the detachable breast pocket and it goes into jacket or trouser pocket. How he knew where the cards were? Idk, madked deck maybe? He’s handling the deck for most of the trick and glancing at it a few times. Maybe some edits might have covered up a move here or there.
Compagnie des Dragonfly, separated boxes. I don’t know where in the half boxes they’re squished into but they remove the bottom blades first so I thought maybe they’re to the bottom side of the box.
I’m surprised they didn’t take a guess on how Engblom removed the cards. A stripped deck has cards that are slightly trapezoidal. If a card is inserted back in a stripped deck in different direction it can be easily pulled out. He didn’t control what direction they inserted the chosen cards back in the deck but he could have swapped out the original deck for one with perfectly rectangular cards of the right size and pulled the selected cards back out just as easily. That may not be how he did it but P&T didn’t even make a guess. However, they may have had a better eye on things and had a reason to dismiss such ideas.
I think they’ve been a bit disingenuous for a while now about guesses that haven’t “fooled” them and others where they throw in the towel early and say they were fooled so that there is minimum number of foolers for each episode - and several episodes are obviously recorded together hence why the hosts wear the same clothes.
Recent examples were a mentalist act where Penn said “someone gave you the information but we don’t know how so you fooled us” yet, with the animals recently he just said “I picked turkey, you had multiple outs so you didn’t fool us”.
With the butterfly marked deck guy last season (or before) when Alyson listened to a track and produced the chosen card, Penn alluded to a marked deck and then Teller showed him something but he ended up being a fooler.
ETa: They should have taken a stab at how he identified and removed the signed cards but each episode needs a fooler and card tricks are maybe harder to pinpoint specifics.
I loved the Finnish guy. I caught a couple moves (how he did the pockets) but no fricken clue how he got the cards. Very unique and original act. Dragonfly was dope too.
The French translation - Reddit - Dive into anything
“We use small green pixies who put the girls back together after their bodies are chopped up.”
I understand how the animal traps trick worked, but I am curious about something.
The 5 ‘real’ traps - would they would do real damage if the performer had a brain cloud and stuck his hand in one?
Or are even those somehow rendered safe (or at least not bone-splitting)?
mmm
I also wondered if the traps were actually dangerous, because P&T have a rule that they don’t do things that could truly cause serious harm and they don’t allow it on the show either. But maybe the forced selection renders the trick “safe” by their definition. The bones seemed very soft and powdery, so maybe the traps weren’t actually strong enough to cause harm?
I thought the Dragonfly illusion was all show and little magic, a long way to portray a pretty routine illusion. Don’t the girls just sneak out the back of the boxes, change clothes, and sneak back in when they’re reassembled? Plenty of shadow and backstage area to facilitate that.
I’ve heard this too. But then Penn, during his discussion of this bit, talked about how careful they have to be backstage and during transport when using such dangerous equipment. Didn’t he say something about having to clamp all the traps closed when they are not being used?
mmm